153 replies to this topic

[Dukarriope]

Do you guys really have to quote entire posts

[Ewigan]

Hi all.

@ Athena: Still a nice read, i did enjoy reading your way to get your first own mech

Just ignore if anyone tells you to put an XL engine on an assault mech, especially on a stalker. The only mech where an XL might be viable is this horribly expensive awesome.... can't remember the type.

The most fascinating thing about this entire thread is though, that Vassago is actually really helpfull and mostly talking sense.
Cheers to you buddy!

[Dukarriope]

I wouldn't put an XL in an Atlas. That's for sure.

[Hawkwings]

Great writeup, very informative and reminds me of the closed beta days when I was just starting out. Granted, we got tons of money win or lose back then, but I was a terrible pilot as well. Looking at some of your videos it seems like you haven't quite gotten the hang of ballistic weapons yet, with their delay in firing. Always remember that you have to lead your target, and if you're running sideways, you have to lead your own position as well. It's easier to hit with the LBX10, but once you start using gauss and AC/20s then that sort of aim becomes crucial, especially in brawls. Keep at it and you'll soon be hitting individual components on the run!

I notice you go off on your own quite a bit, that's a sure death sentence especially in a trial mech or an assault. You'll get swarmed by their lights and you'll be without support in any case. Stick with the group - a big blob of even pubbies is hard to kill. Remember that you're not an invincible death machine (like clan mechs are), you are pretty vulnerable actually.

Vassago can be rude but he's giving good advice in this thread. I would suggest listening to it.

When you get the money, upgrade your Stalker with endo steel and double heatsinks. Endo is always a good upgrade for any mech, and DHS is worth it in nearly all cases. Don't get ferro-fibrous, you don't have the crit slots available on an assault.

Dragons are bad. It doesn't matter that some people can put out 900+ damage in them. Nobody runs dragons in competitive matches for a reason.

The only assault that you should ever put an XL engine in is the Awesome 9M, because you can go 86kph in the thing with a maxed engine and have a bunch of medium pulse lasers.

Keep at it! I enjoy reading these posts, and they're probably very useful for new players as well.

Edited by Hawkwings, 15 January 2013 - 01:45 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Hawkwings, on 15 January 2013 - 01:37 AM, said:

Great writeup, very informative and reminds me of the closed beta days when I was just starting out. Granted, we got tons of money win or lose back then, but I was a terrible pilot as well. Looking at some of your videos it seems like you haven't quite gotten the hang of ballistic weapons yet, with their delay in firing. Always remember that you have to lead your target, and if you're running sideways, you have to lead your own position as well. It's easier to hit with the LBX10, but once you start using gauss and AC/20s then that sort of aim becomes crucial, especially in brawls. Keep at it and you'll soon be hitting individual components on the run!

I notice you go off on your own quite a bit, that's a sure death sentence especially in a trial mech or an assault. You'll get swarmed by their lights and you'll be without support in any case. Stick with the group - a big blob of even pubbies is hard to kill. Remember that you're not an invincible death machine (like clan mechs are), you are pretty vulnerable actually.

Vassago can be rude but he's giving good advice in this thread. I would suggest listening to it.

When you get the money, upgrade your Stalker with endo steel and double heatsinks. Endo is always a good upgrade for any mech, and DHS is worth it in nearly all cases. Don't get ferro-fibrous, you don't have the crit slots available on an assault.

Dragons are bad. It doesn't matter that some people can put out 900+ damage in them. Nobody runs dragons in competitive matches for a reason.

Keep at it! I enjoy reading these posts, and they're probably very useful for new players as well.

Endo isn't really good on the stalker, since it has so many weapons and items. I've yet to see one that'd benefit from it. Artemis has a lot of uses on the mech, however, but it's more of a 'I have 1 million space bucks I don't know what to do with' than a 'oh my god, I need this upgrade to get this mech functional!'

[Ewigan]

Again: What Vassago said.

Endo/Ferro are wastes space on stalkers.
You need the crits for DHS and weapons/ammo.

for artemis well: I had it on my first stalker as i was running it as an LRM boat. found that to be a waste with the awesome torso twist (it was a 3F), so i refitted it to a different playstyle, but i didn't want to waste the money to switch back to artemis. now it has SRm6+artemis because of that, what actually works really well.

my LRM-boat stalker (5M) gets a freaking lot out of artemis though. the combination of artemis, TAG and lots of launchers (5/10) makes it a dead-sentence for every mech that is stupid enough to run around anf be spottable.

Edited by Ewigan, 15 January 2013 - 01:49 AM.

[Hawkwings]

Stalker 3F with 4 large lasers and 4 streaks benefits from Endo. You kind of need it to get all your weapons and enough heatsinks on. As it is, it's still hot.

The med laser/SRM6 brawler does not need endo though, since its weapons weigh a lot less and you run out of crit slots before you hit your weight cap.

Edited by Hawkwings, 15 January 2013 - 01:56 AM.

[Ewigan]

My 3F runs with 2 ERPPC, 2Med Laser and 2 SRM6+Artemis.
There is NO place for Endo there, trust me ^^

[Kell Draygo]

XL Engine on a Stalker isn't nearly as bad as XL on an Atlas or Awesome. It lowers life expectancy but you can torso twist to the undamaged side when your weapons are on cool down. I've run two different version of Stalkers so far when I use to play (taking a break now because the game just wasn't fun until they fix a lot of the core issues).

I had a 5MPL, 5 SSRM2 build for close range mauling and counter-light mech action and it is pretty brutal. I was able to shove all the weapons, enough ammo, and full DHS into that build with a standard engine since MPLs and SSRM2s were light enough.

The second Stalker I purchased I slotted 6xLarge Lasers for longer range battles but due to their heavy tonnage requirement, I had to put in XL Engines. I was prepared for the worst but with careful piloting and twisting, I was usually able to kill my opponent with the large laser barrage before getting cored. Light Mechs were a pain due to lag shield as usual.

Nowhere can you fit Endo or FF armor if you want to maximize a Stalker's hardpoints with firepower. That is one of the Stalker's strong points, the large amount of weapon hard points and beefy armor. I've learned to not over-extend myself because if you get caught in the open, then you're dead.

All my experiences so far have been with 100% pugging as well. I'm sure people who run premades will have different experiences. So make sure when someone gives you advice, ask them if they pug or premade.

Edited by Kell Draygo, 15 January 2013 - 06:36 AM.

[Murku]

Hi Athena, wanted to show you how a SRM/ML 3F Stalker feels when solo PUGing. My vintage PC bumps out all of 10 - 25 FPS, and as a UK player I have a Ping of around 120. Therefore, any success here is the build, not the setup...



Nothing fancy but a good idea of some of my basic tactics:
The Anti-Snipe shuffle works on 00.35 - 00.49
Damage Spreading across Torso locations on 02.20 - 2.55
Walling Missiles on 03.30 - 03.50
The reverse twist/turn vs fast circlers on 03.50 - 4.05
Team roll/reverse Salvos on 04.20 - 04.50.
Nothing special on the scoreboard to end, but I felt I carried my weight.

My FLAME Dragon is my better ride, if ever my upload finishes I'll link that to show you the chassis' potential Granted, Flame does have sweet hardpoints, but as a general firepower/speed display I think it's the closest you'll get to feeling clan-power for a bit.

Edited by Murku, 15 January 2013 - 08:05 AM.

[Athena Pryde]

@Dukarriope
Doesn't seem worth it for the XL. I tend to lose a side torso before my center goes in the Stalker 3F.

The capture program seems to capture all my audio including the song I'm listening to via WinAMP and if people message me on AIM or MSN it gets that sound too.

I could take the time to take out the audio but I don't bother. Many of the game videos I see feature music so I just left it in.

I will try your 28/15/15 armor for a few drops and see how that goes if I get shot in the back.

@Vassago Rain
I think most of the trials are oven deathtraps with single heat sinks. The Dragon trial is pretty bad. Probably the worst of the 4 I tried. Although the Raven is pretty bad too.

XL engine assault mechs should no be trial mechs because they are so expensive that a new user can't really afford them without grinding awhile in the trial mech since the cadet bonus is insufficient to afford them.

The Stalker 3F is probably at the limit of what you can afford to buy and give double heat sinks with the cadet bonus cbills.

I am pretty broke now that I finished with my 25 games of cadet bonus so Artemis will have to wait and see. Saving up for the 300 Standard engine first.

@Ewigan
I doubt I will be affording an XL engine anytime soon. Saving for a 300 standard though.

@Hawkwings
Thank you. I did run off a bit with the faster mechs to run and gun shoot people in the back. Found out pretty quickly running into the enemy herd doesn't exactly work out too well need to bide your time and then run in once the brawl started.

I did buy double heat sinks. Just haven't had time to write it up quite yet. Might be up tonight if not tommorow. I am not sure about Endosteel. My target build doesn't use it.

@Murku
Thank you. I'll watch that tonight while waiting for the patch.

I am a bit skeptical about the Dragon. I suppose it might be decent if you have a custom dragon and a friend to flank with you and concentrate fire. Just the trial Dragon was extremely bad and many people Dragon is bad.

Edited by Athena Pryde, 15 January 2013 - 09:12 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Quote

Thank you. I did run off a bit with the faster mechs to run and gun shoot people in the back. Found out pretty quickly running into the enemy herd doesn't exactly work out too well need to bide your time and then run in once the brawl started

I found that out quickly as well, but I still haven't learned the lesson, it seems to me.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

Vassago Rain, on 15 January 2013 - 12:44 AM, said:

I pub in these mechs. They're so heavily optimized because I only have myself to rely on for 90% of all my matches.

I wasn't implying that the rear armor thing was the worst idea I had ever heard (I wasn't too clear I guess, I can see why it might seem that way,) but my point about "good advice for groups" being different from "good advice for pugs" being completely different things still stands. I actually go a little lower on the back myself, just not so low that someone will notice the vulnerability after one sweep with an mlas.

Better examples probably would have been things like XL engines on brawler mediums, crazy PPC boat builds without backup weapons, LRMs with little or no backup weapons, et cetera and stuff like that. Go through any thread on these boards where a newbie is asking for help and you will find a lot of people posting their pubstomping builds that would be objectively bad without teamwork.

Athena Pryde, on 15 January 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

I am a bit skeptical about the Dragon. I suppose it might be decent if you have a custom dragon and a friend to flank with you and concentrate fire. Just the trial Dragon was extremely bad and many people Dragon is bad.

That trial dragon is baaaad, and the cent isn't much better. Watching the videos, you were playing too aggressively with both of them. The speed makes you want to rush forward when you should be hanging back and waiting for your friendly assaults and brawlers to commit to the melee, then flank/go for targets of opportunity.

As for the Dragon being a bad gundam in general, that's because the fast heavy cavalry role doesn't really exist in the "srs bizness" competitive play right now. For pick-up groups it can be fun and effective, and I think it may have a better defined role if/when we get 12v12 (or more) plus bigger maps.

Edited by Warrax the Chaos Warrior, 15 January 2013 - 09:32 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Warrax the Chaos Warrior, on 15 January 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

I wasn't implying that the rear armor thing was the worst idea I had ever heard (I wasn't too clear I guess, I can see why it might seem that way,) but my point about "good advice for groups" being different from "good advice for pugs" being completely different things still stands. I actually go a little lower on the back myself, just not so low that someone will notice the vulnerability after one sweep with an mlas.

Better examples probably would have been things like XL engines on brawler mediums, crazy PPC boat builds without backup weapons, LRMs with little or no backup weapons, et cetera and stuff like that. Go through any thread on these boards where a newbie is asking for help and you will find a lot of people posting their pubstomping builds that would be objectively bad without teamwork.

We used to see a lot of these people in 8 manz at one point. I remember one particular match, we were on forest colony, and there was no action at all for the first 5 minutes, so we waited near the killbox on upper base.

After a bit more waiting, when time was close to running out, they all bumrush INTO the killbox, and what do you know? Their atlases start dropping like flies to side torso shots, as do their hunchbacks.

[Serapth]

Dukarriope, on 15 January 2013 - 01:02 AM, said:

quote entire posts

OK!



( I found this reply funny on many levels )

[Aym]

Athena Pryde, on 08 January 2013 - 12:26 AM, said:

Little about me. I played Mech Warrior 2, Mech Warrior 3, Mech Warrior Living Legends and the Virtual World Tesla Pods under the handles "Athena Pryde", "Athena" or "Lady Athena" My favorite mechs in previous games where the Summoner and the Timberwolf Pryde (jump jets). Maybe we played together at some point.

To star this journey we have to pick a mech to play with....

Lets see the current Trial Mechs and what we have to work with here.

Raven RVN-2X, Centurion CN9-D, Dragon DRG-5N, Stalker STK-3F thats it? What no Timber Wolfs or Summoner? Aww its only 3050 Guess I'll have to wait for those to come later when the Clan invasion happens in March.

I actually had to look up these mechs on Sarna to find out how more information like how much ammo and the full stats they had which wasn't listed in the in game statistics. That should have been listed in the stats in game so you don't have to go to a forum to look it up.

Mech #1

Raven RVN-2X
Engine: Standard 175
Speed: 81 kph
Weapon Loadout:
2 Medium Laser (Right Arm)
1 Large Laser (Left Torso)
1 SRM 6 (Right Torso) + 1 Ton Ammo (Left Torso)
Equipment:
12 Single Heat sinks
6.5 Tons Armour
Stats:
34 firepower
1.01 heat efficiency

Thoughts on the Raven RVN-2X:
Are you kidding me? Some heavy mechs like the Timberwolf go 81 kph. I am not really a fan of light mechs but if they don't run at least 90+ kph I'll pass. 12 heat sinks isn't enough to fire everything either. Plus Raven's are known for carrying ECM this one doesn't have it.

Mech #2

Centurion CN9-D
Engine: 300 XL
Speed: 97.2kph
Weapon Loadout:
2 Medium Laser (Centre Torso)
1 LB-10X (Right Arm) + 2 tons ammo (Right Torso, CASE)
1 LRM 10 + Artemis (Left Torso) + 2 tons Ammo (Right Torso, CASE)
Equipment:
10 Single Heat Sinks
8.5 tons armour (272 points)
Endosteel Structure
Stats
38 Firepower
1.05 heat efficiency

Thoughts on the Centurion CN9-D
Shotgun seems rather poor spreading out your damage unless your really close and if you are running up to shotgun you can't use your LRMS when your shotguning. Your Shotgun being in the arm is likely to be blown off. XL Engine seems like it would cut your life expectancy down considerably. This would be better if the LBX10X could actually select slug and cluster ammo like its supposed to. Pass on this one too.

Mech #3

Dragon DRG-5N
Engine: 300 Standard
Speed: 81kph
Weapon Loadout:
1 Medium Laser (Left Arm)
1 UAC/5 (Right Arm) + 1 Ton Ammo (Right Torso, CASE)
1 LRM 10 (Centre Torso) + 2 Tons Ammo (Left Torso, CASE)
Equipment:
10 Single Heat Sinks
10 Tons Armour (320 points)
Stats:
28 Firepower
1.22 heat efficiency

Thoughts on the Dragon DRG-5N
It is fast as a Timberwolf carries much less weapons though. Only 25 rounds for the Ultra AC-5 seems really weak sauce if you don't run out of ammo your arm is likely to get blown off fairly quickly. That leaves you with a single medium laser and an LRM launcher with no TAG. Pass.

Mech #4

Stalker STK-3F
Engine: 255 Standard
Speed: 48.6 kph
4 Medium Lasers (2 Left Arm, 2 Right Arm),
2 Large Lasers (Left Torso, Right Torso)
2 LRM 10 (Left Arm, Right Arm) + 2 Tons Ammo (Left Arm, Right Arm)
2 SRM 6 (Left Torso, Right Torso)+ 2 Tons Ammo (Left Torso, Right Torso)
Equipment:
20 Single Heat Sinks
13.5 Tons Armour (432 points)
Stats:
104 Firepower
0.85 heat efficiency

Thoughts on the Stalker STK-3F
How cute its a wannabe Blood Kite. Unfortunately it looks like a chicken. It does have a decent mix of ranged and close range weapons. Could use double heat sinks double heat sinks since its heat efficiency is quite bad and a TAG to help out the LRMS but its the best trial mech by far. I guess I will have to settle for the Stalker and start saving my Cbills for it so I can buy one and customize it to maximize the experience earned.

Mech Choice: Stalker STK-3F
In order to maximize the exp earned in trials this will be the mech I will be buying to make a mini Bloodkite.

Initial Impressions of picking a Mech:
Your options for a trial mech to play is really limited. It would be nice if they had more mechs to choose from. They really should just let you pick from any available stock variant of any available mech as a trial mech. If this choice is too broad maybe 1 variant of each mech available. Definitely have a varied choice with the different roles represented and at least 1 ECM varient. Then you would be able to try out various mechs and find one you like and earn experience in it before you buy it. The 4 choices really don't work if someone wants to play a fast ecm scout, sniper, or missle support. Why don't the mechs have stock double heat sinks? They did in other Mechwarrior games.

Comming soon: Complete rundown of games 1-25 (with cadet bonus) + (some grouped with friends some lone wolf) including gameplay thoughts, screenshots of endgame performance screenshots, videos.

Is there a way to attach pictures or do I have to host them somewhere? Videos I'll probably put on youtube when I have time.

TL;DR I want to play Clan mechs.

[Serapth]

Athena Pryde, on 15 January 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

I am a bit skeptical about the Dragon. I suppose it might be decent if you have a custom dragon and a friend to flank with you and concentrate fire. Just the trial Dragon was extremely bad and many people Dragon is bad.

Dont judge the dragon by the trial dragon ( or any mech by the trial version for that matter ).

Simple matter is, if they upped the ammo for the UAC5 and added another medium laser, it would be the best of the trial mechs currently on offer. That its a crap load out, with crap ammo, with ammo stored in crap locations makes any judgement completely pointless.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

Vassago Rain, on 15 January 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

We used to see a lot of these people in 8 manz at one point. I remember one particular match, we were on forest colony, and there was no action at all for the first 5 minutes, so we waited near the killbox on upper base.

After a bit more waiting, when time was close to running out, they all bumrush INTO the killbox, and what do you know? Their atlases start dropping like flies to side torso shots, as do their hunchbacks.

No doubt instead of fixing their builds, they learned to sync drop into the pub queue

[Aym]

Athena Pryde, on 11 January 2013 - 12:19 AM, said:

@Ozorn
Thank you for the offer. I might take you up on that when I have a fully customized mech up and running and completed the first impressions.

How exactly does Salvage work do you get a certain amount per kill or assist or damage done?

@Rakashan
Thank you. WoT doesn't exactly have a Lobby but there is a chat for your clan and group chat when you are in a platoon or company. I didn't look for a training room so didn't notice the lack of one at least not on day one. I agree there should be one like there is in World of Tanks. So you can try out different configurations and try out different configurations and get a feel for how much heat firing different weapon groups generates.

Group chat should be more intuitive and have a chat window for your group. UI is pretty clunky as is.

@Ptorm
I usually play late nights. Insomnia .

@Dukarriope
Whats your favorite Miku song? I really like World's End Dancehall.

As far as group chat, I thought it only went to that friend who's name you click on the friends name. Will have to try it if I get a group of larger then 2.

Athena please don't wait till you get more experience/custom mech to join a more experienced TS3 group. The community here is by and large very helpful and can improve your win/loss ratio and give you in-game pointers to help you learn.

[Vassago Rain]

Warrax the Chaos Warrior, on 15 January 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

No doubt instead of fixing their builds, they learned to sync drop into the pub queue

Actually, yes. That, or they stopped playing. I don't see many of them around anymore.

But it was funny, so it's okay. Oh, and other times, we've made amazing salvage from legging tons of ECM ravens.