59 replies to this topic

[Owlfeathers]

Yes. But I don't think there should be a cap, who know, perhaps someone will figure out how to make an effective build that revolves around being able to launch themselves into orbit. Perhaps make fall damage also increased from higher falls though?

[Metalfyre]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 08 January 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

And for a later feature maybe if your arm is blown off use that extra weight loss as well.

And its like a 30min job.

If just one arm is blown off, will that affect the trajectory of the jump due to the imbalance of weight?

Or if the LT simply has way less armour than the RT?

There is a lot more to think about than your '30 min job' allows for.

Edited by Metalfyre, 13 January 2013 - 06:01 AM.

[Erasus Magnus]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 08 January 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

I'm trying to convince my designers that this idea is worthwhile.

Should your actual mass affect jump jet height?

By this I mean if I make a 58.5t Catapult which is a 65t mech, should it go 10% higher because I dropped 10% of my mass?

So that players who can't get up a building because they are too fat can lower their loadout tonnage a bit and get up to the location they want the next time.

And some will be able to create some useless mechs that launch themselves into orbit. Which we can cap maybe to a max bonus of 50%.

And for a later feature maybe if your arm is blown off use that extra weight loss as well.

And its like a 30min job.

please also consider to alter the speed/acceleration values as the mech loses more and more weight due to ammunition spent during combat

[Khobai]

The way jumpjets work in TT is the more the mech weighs, the more the jumpjets weigh... which makes sense because mechs that weigh more would need bigger jumpjets to obtain the same amount of thrust. So a Highlander with 4 jumpjets should be able to jump the same distance as a Jenner with 4 jumpjets... its just the Highlander's jumpjets will weigh three times as much.

If you base the jump height on actual tonnage it seems like it would punish mechs which cant deliberately leave off tonnage to jump higher.

Edited by Khobai, 26 January 2013 - 02:17 PM.

[SI The Joker]

I voted yes. I like the concept.

If I'm in a Highlander at 100 tons (w) and have (x) jets (the weight of said jets is irrelevant) which provide (y) thrust take me (z) distance... if I decrease the (w) ton value by say... 10 tons... (not sure why people would want to do this?) then I would expect to go slighter further/higher upon jetting.

The (y) thrust value hasn't changed at all. I still have (x) jets. But I do have less (w) tons. Logically, (z) distance should increase.

[Hawkeye 72]

I'm voting yes on two conditions:

1) This would only take 30 minutes to do. Not just the coding, but analyzing any repercussions this addition might cause or any bugs that might arise. If the whole process wastes a day of work, I say don't bother.

2). There are no adverse games imbalances. See the aforementioned comments. If I start getting Gauss Cicadas or Gauss Cats sitting atop plateaus on frozen city where they can snipe the hell out of us without being hit I am going to have an issue.

[Sasuga]

Larger mechs have larger jumpjets. People who pay for jumpjets pay in C-bills, Mass, and Crit-Slots... which means they are trading possible armor/speed/weapons for them. Plus they cost heat to use.

Everything is a trade-off. We don't need to start pidgin holing things. Just because its large, or just because its small, doesn't mean it shouldn't be able to do something... especially, since, when there is something like we already have, the thing already stated, a trade-off in place for it.

Its the exceptional things that make this game fun. If everyone was limited to function a certain way, things would be extremely boring. Its the extremes, and the things that catch us off guard that make the game interesting. We either deal with it or we die.

[Sasuga]

Hawkeye 72, on 26 January 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

I'm voting yes on two conditions:

1) This would only take 30 minutes to do. Not just the coding, but analyzing any repercussions this addition might cause or any bugs that might arise. If the whole process wastes a day of work, I say don't bother.

2). There are no adverse games imbalances. See the aforementioned comments. If I start getting Gauss Cicadas or Gauss Cats sitting atop plateaus on frozen city where they can snipe the hell out of us without being hit I am going to have an issue.

Catapults come with jumpjets so they can get on high ground and fire at long ranges.

I have a gauss sniping catapult right now. I took the Jumpjets off for extra mass because I was running out of ammo too quickly.

As a gauss-cat who did have jumpjets, I would get up on plateaus and find myself the target of every mech in the game. I had gauss cannons returning fire on me, I had PPCs firing on me, and I had hell raining down on me in the form of over 100 LRM missiles raining down on me. So, I didn't stay on that plateau too long. I backed off jumped down as quick as I could, and barely made it out with half my mech still in tact. Probably one shot from death really.

Just because you're running around with small lasers and SRMs for your armament [/sarcasm] doesn't mean that snipers shouldn't be allowed to try and snipe...

And you know what, the grass is always greener on the other side buddy. You might have died to a gauss sniper or two, but if so... they were crafty enough, or lucky enough to pull it off... Because you try to get up on a plateaus and start shooting and see how long you last. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't... Just like everything in this game and most games... You can't rely on one strategy and can't force your opponent into always using a predictable strategy so you can always deal with it.

If the game was predictable, no skill would be involved... then it would be a coin flip or the guy with the most c-bills who always won, and that would be boring.

War is hell, adapt or die.

Edited by Sasuga, 26 January 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[Hawkeye 72]

Sasuga, on 26 January 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

War is hell, adapt or die.

This has absolutely nothing to do with whining about sniper tactics. Exhibit A of why I don't post much anymore. Allow me to clarify...

For the sake of this thread, a particular example I had in mind was a Catapult reducing its weight enough with minimal armor to be able to jump jet atop the tunnels in Frozen City. This plateau overlooks the entire map and presents a firing position that the map designers had not originally intended for the game. While this may or may not be feasible, suddenly several vantage points on all four maps have to be reconsidered for game balance because players may now access positions that were not intended in the design. If a simple jump jet physics edit forces level designers to reanalyze aspects of the entire map, this simple 30 min fix is not worth it. This has nothing to do with me whining about snipers and 100% to do with level design.

Edited by Hawkeye 72, 27 January 2013 - 12:26 AM.

[Brilig]

Sounds good to me.

[blinkin]

Sasuga, on 26 January 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

Catapults come with jumpjets so they can get on high ground and fire at long ranges.

I have a gauss sniping catapult right now. I took the Jumpjets off for extra mass because I was running out of ammo too quickly.

As a gauss-cat who did have jumpjets, I would get up on plateaus and find myself the target of every mech in the game. I had gauss cannons returning fire on me, I had PPCs firing on me, and I had hell raining down on me in the form of over 100 LRM missiles raining down on me. So, I didn't stay on that plateau too long. I backed off jumped down as quick as I could, and barely made it out with half my mech still in tact. Probably one shot from death really.

you are full of lies.

catapult k2 is the only catapult in the game that has ballistic slots. k2 is also the only catapult that does not allow any jump jets. never has, probably never will.

i don't know exactly why you would make something like this up but i doubt your reasons are entirely wholesome.

for anyone who doubts me: http://mwowiki.org/w...atapult_CPLT-K2

or you could try equipping jump jets on a k2 yourself. anyone who doubts me please feel free to confirm this for yourself.

ballistic catapults with jump jets have not existed at any point between now and when jump jets made their first appearance in closed beta. i know i wanted a 4x ERPPC k2 with jump jets, but it has never been possible.

Edited by blinkin, 13 February 2013 - 11:29 PM.

[ManDaisy]

This kinda opens the door to 50 ton atlases moving at godly speeds. I'd welcome the variation of speed tank, just saying.

[Deathlike]

Bah to necro thread.. though it's special enough.

blinkin, on 13 February 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

you are full of lies.

catapult k2 is the only catapult in the game that has ballistic slots. k2 is also the only catapult that does not allow any jump jets. never has, probably never will.

i don't know exactly why you would make something like this up but i doubt your reasons are entirely wholesome.

for anyone who doubts me: http://mwowiki.org/w...atapult_CPLT-K2

or you could try equipping jump jets on a k2 yourself. anyone who doubts me please feel free to confirm this for yourself.

ballistic catapults with jump jets have not existed at any point between now and when jump jets made their first appearance in closed beta. i know i wanted a 4x ERPPC k2 with jump jets, but it has never been possible.

Only mech that can do that at the moment is the Cataphract-3D (dual gauss jumper). I get that feeling that was the mech the poster mech (but totally screwed up). The best you can do with a Catapult jumper is a C1 Catapult with dual ERPPCs (which I did run).

Edited by Deathlike, 07 May 2013 - 09:00 AM.

[Straften]

MasterBLB, on 09 January 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

The answer NO.KISS is one reason,the other is no other equipment is revelant to mass.
Besides the jump jets needs to be rollbacked first before any tweak attempts,as now they are utterly useless.

The current meta is strongly influenced by them for heavies and assualts. Lights and mediums get excellent mobility into hard to reach places, and can even reach areas other mechs cannot. How is this useless in any way?

*Edit*

I love how a dev comes in here with a great suggestion to improve the flavor of the game, and gets trolled by many in the community. "KISS" is really the best you guys can do? Did the Hawken devs pay you guys to post here? Wait... are you guys the Hawken devs?

Edited by Straften, 07 May 2013 - 10:41 AM.

[Av4tar]

Not in TT rules, no, leave the JJ alone.

[Ashnod]

Sure, while your at it make them let you change direction mid air like in lore..

[Inyc]

Its up to you to decide if a fairly low-impact change like this is worth the resources. Otherwise I'm all for any nice TECHNOLOGY details like this.

MAKE SURE AMMO EXPENDITURE IS CALCULATED IN THIS. OTHERWISE ITS NOT WORTH IT!

Edited by Inyc, 08 May 2013 - 12:15 AM.

[MasterBLB]

Straften, on 07 May 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

The current meta is strongly influenced by them for heavies and assualts. Lights and mediums get excellent mobility into hard to reach places, and can even reach areas other mechs cannot. How is this useless in any way?

At the time the comment has been written jumpjets were nerfed into oblivion.They got a buff some time ago which made them useable if put 2-3 units,so now are not a crap but not as good as they were once.

Straften, on 07 May 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

*Edit*

I love how a dev comes in here with a great suggestion to improve the flavor of the game, and gets trolled by many in the community. "KISS" is really the best you guys can do? Did the Hawken devs pay you guys to post here? Wait... are you guys the Hawken devs?

And again,this was related to old,nerfed jets.We really wished for them to be useful (rollback the nerf) not some strange 'inventions'.
About KISS,as a dev I can assure you it's a great rule,I've never regretted using it.

[Curccu]

With this I would so ask my team to shoot my Spider-5Vs arms off when game begins.

[StalaggtIKE]

So what ever happened to this?