442 replies to this topic

[JayVrb]

I notice that when people complain about ECM being overpowered, 80% of the time it's about the Ravens, Commandos, and the occasional Cicada. At least you can hit an ECM Atlas, but I want to see what other people's thoughts were on this.

[Cik]

there is no problem with the ECM atlas, because the atlas does not have a lagshield. even the 3L, which is a bit more OP wouldn't be such a ******* problem IF MY WEAPONS WERE CAPABLE OF HITTING ONE. honestly, there wouldn't be any complaint then because it would not be an immortal battalion-killer as it is now. the other night we had 2 ravens attacking our entire force, over two minutes of fire and they both survived. ludicrous.

[ICEFANG13]

Yes I do, because 8 ECM Atlas have a huge advantage over 8 other assaults, they can use radar and focus fire easily. Lagshield is a problem, ECM is also a problem. ECM doing everything under the sun for 1.5 tons and 2 slots is bad design, and I want it to be a good and balanced system.

[Corvus Antaka]

Sadly Roland it is not skill that Trumps ECM but builds. Direct Fire guns Trump ECM. SSRMS and LRMS are primarily a liability now. There is always the risk the other team "out ecms" you, and as such when you really push down to the meat of it, hardcore squads must run 8 ECM mechs, or insure everyone has direct fire.

In addition with Radar crushed by ECM, it is even more important for all 8 men to stay in a tight huddle/firing line and engage targets 1 at a time, as just finding alpha, bravo etc is way harder.

Sadly if you are out ecmed, and your SSRMS are unable to lock, no amount of skill will save your commando 2 D and its 1 medium laser.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Well Colonel, builds may be affected but I have yet to have any of mine get so badly hosed as that. Skill in building your mech for the current paradigm is still skill.

[Roland Verliden]

The problems surrounding ECM can be boiled down to three main points:

1. Yes, ECM does do more than it probably should.
2. Matchmaking as it is can lead to frustratingly one-sided rounds (I know of a unit that forbids sync-dropping 2 4-man groups for courtesy's sake), and I'm skeptical of Phase 3 alleviating that.
3. PUGs do not have an easy in-game way of coordinating. Most multiplayer games do not require VOIP programs, and with good reason: they already have ways to quickly communicate without needing to type. The only good excuse is if you have completely bungled in-game chat, like in PlanetSide 2.

Compounding these problems:
-The latency issues are a factor. While it may be recommended for players to learn how to account for the lag, asking them to do that is simply trying to make up for the underlying problem.
-Streak SRMs are likely more effective than they should be-the suggestion of having to make them re-acquire a target after each salvo would both make it truer to tabletop while balancing it out.
-The oft-vilified Raven 3L mounts both SSRM-2s and the ECM, and benefits from the latency issues.
-TAG, while intended by the devs to be a counter to ECM, is regarded as being ineffective for that purpose. (My suggestion? Make it constantly active, or buff the acquisition time.)
-The capability of ECM to mask targeting info shuts out the avenue of going with direct-fire weaponry, unless you somehow boat a lot of them. Speaking as a Hunchback 4G user, it's nice to know where to fire my AC/20 into if I need to take out a mech as quickly as possible.
-Finally, the knockdown issue is often brought up, but to be fair to PGI, the alternative is knocking down a mech only for it to, say, get back up 50 meters away.

Edited by Roland Verliden, 10 January 2013 - 10:19 PM.

[MajorBorris]

ECM is so over rated its comical.

If you cant figure out how to counter/mitigate mechs and there different advantages your missing the point of games like this.

As they say "paper is balanced but scissors is way OP"

[Elder Thorn]

if oyu ask me, commanding is borked, because of ECM. There is no way you can call targets if you can't see their 'callsigns', well you could say "the DDC is primary" answer: "which one? there are 8 of them" - "the second from the left in the upper row".

But well... that's it

[Sir Roland MXIII]

MajorBorris, on 10 January 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

ECM is so over rated its comical.

If you cant figure out how to counter/mitigate mechs and there different advantages your missing the point of games like this.

As they say "paper is balanced but scissors is way OP"

As I've said, I think ECM does a bit too much but this WAS called "the thinking man's shooter" and it sure seems to me that some people aren't as qualified for that as they like to think. Targeting info is nice, but not required. And so, and so on, and so... UGH. Frankly I feel ECM is over-villified, and the complaints can be over the top.

Is ECM doing too much, does it need scaling back, yes. If that's something others agree with then I think they should stow the melodrama and just say they agree.

[ICEFANG13]

MajorBorris, on 10 January 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

ECM is so over rated its comical.

If you cant figure out how to counter/mitigate mechs and there different advantages your missing the point of games like this.

As they say "paper is balanced but scissors is way OP"

Why should I have to counter ECM, a 2 slot 1.5 ton thing. Its not like you start a match and say, gee, I hope they aren't packing a medium and a small laser! Those 2 weapons will be devastating.

[Roland Verliden]

MajorBorris, on 10 January 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

ECM is so over rated its comical.

If you cant figure out how to counter/mitigate mechs and there different advantages your missing the point of games like this.

As they say "paper is balanced but scissors is way OP"

When's the last time you ran an Awesome, Catapult, Hunchback, Cataphract, or Centurion, just for curiosity's sake? When I drop in those, I legitimately feel like my fate in the match is going to be swayed unless one or more of my teammates is carrying an ECM.

By the way, all but one of those mechs are direct-fire.

Edited by Roland Verliden, 10 January 2013 - 10:31 PM.

[Elder Thorn]

well i agree.
And yes, it is because of the lagshield

[Roland Verliden]

Yeah, with the D-DC, it's still sort of easy to buy the farm in that, because you can get behind one and pump firepower into its rear until it's dead. It's a real hassle to play Chicken: Laser and AC Edition with Light ECM carriers.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Roland Verliden, on 10 January 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

When's the last time you ran an Awesome, Catapult, Hunchback, Cataphract, or Centurion, just for curiosity's sake? When I drop in those, I legitimately feel like my fate in the match is going to be swayed unless one or more of my teammates is carrying an ECM.

By the way, all but one of those mechs are direct-fire.

Out of curiosity's sake, all of the ones you list. Funny thing is you're wrong about the direct fire comment. Unless you've never actually played an Awesome, Catapult, Hunchback, Cataphract, AND Centurion. Each of those has variants with missile hardpoints, and are especially focused on such in the case of certain Awesomes and Catapults.

I *own* the following. Since this is off the top o' my head I won't know everything but I will recall most:

Raven 3L
Endo Ferro DHS
XL 295
2 ML
TAG
SRM6
SSRM2
ECM

Cataphract 3D
4 ML
UAC5
LB10x
4 JJ

Atlas D DC
Standard 305
DHS
2 MPL
AC20
2 SSRM2
LRM 20
ECM

Cataphract 4X
Endo DHS
1 ML
2 UAC5
2 AC2

DRG 1N
ERPPC
2 SRM4
LB10X

Flame
Standard 290
Endo Ferro DHS
4 ML
AC20 / Guass depending on mood

Hunchback 4SP
2 SRM6
4 ML

I have killed ECM mechs, non ECM mechs, lights and non lights, or combinations thereof in all of these. Note that, except for the Raven and Atlas, that they lack light killing weapons such as most would say, and note, Colonel, the overabundance of mechs and weapons with which you have griped are useless.

I say again. I have killed mechs with ECm, and without, and lights, with all of these mechs. *I* have no problems. Mind coming up with another excuse? I figure you've got another one just waiting to be deployed, that doesn't rightfully point the finger at yourself.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 10 January 2013 - 10:53 PM.

[MajorBorris]

One good thing ECM did is eliminate the ez targeting button, before ECM you didnt even have to "see" a mech with eyes.

ECM will NEVER defeat tactics, strategy or at the moment comunications(if it does one day you still can shoot the same target everyone else is shooting)

If anything ECM puts a target on the back of whatever mech installs it.

Maybe I have played the game so much that after 1000s of matches its pretty obvious that its just not that big of a deal (ecm) and adds more game play that the game needs.

edit* yes I play all the mechs

Edited by MajorBorris, 10 January 2013 - 10:49 PM.

[ICEFANG13]

Why does ECM put a big target on it? Its not because its powerful is it? Or is it just because people don't like it?

ECM isn't that powerful, people will shoot at you.

[MajorBorris]

ICEFANG13, on 10 January 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

Why does ECM put a big target on it? Its not because its powerful is it? Or is it just because people don't like it?

ECM isn't that powerful, people will shoot at you.

There are many reasons we might shoot at one mech as a group over another.

Each engagement is unique.

As a side note pilot skill is one of those reasons yet can mitigated like anything else.

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

When netcode is fixed and KD reintroduced I'll re-evaluate my position on ECM. I'd like ECM to also interfere with allied targeting just as it does for the enemy. It should be a double-edged sword.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

I call ECM targets early just because on PUGs I know they hate them enough they might actually listen.

[ICEFANG13]

And the awesome thing about ECM is you can't say target A, you have to say, target ECM raven, and that's a lot longer than just A. It also makes it harder to do the same for other things, what if they bring 8 D-DCs? Target, um that one in front...