442 replies to this topic

[MajorBorris]

ICEFANG13, on 10 January 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

And the awesome thing about ECM is you can't say target A, you have to say, target ECM raven, and that's a lot longer than just A. It also makes it harder to do the same for other things, what if they bring 8 D-DCs? Target, um that one in front...

If I am the squad leader my team should focus my target.

* That argument has been brought to bear many times yet I have seen it in reality rarely, and yes there is a counter to that as well.

Edited by MajorBorris, 10 January 2013 - 11:11 PM.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Designations when under ECM aren't enough. So call chassis, location, and variant. True, this isn't easy in text format. But hey, we'll get VOIP ingame some day, and nothing worth having is easy to get.

[twibs]

When doing 4-mans, we feel that at least one of us HAS to bring along ECM to not gimp our team.

We'd much prefer grinding that chassises we need XP for, but we have to take one for the team.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Brown Hornet, on 10 January 2013 - 10:59 PM, said:

When netcode is fixed and KD reintroduced I'll re-evaluate my position on ECM. I'd like ECM to also interfere with allied targeting just as it does for the enemy. It should be a double-edged sword.

I could live with that dual nature.

[VXJaeger]

ECM-lights are the main problem. Weapon convergence, firing delay on ballistics, size and lagshield make them nearly impossible to hit.
ECM-Atlas however is so BIG and slow that you can hit them. They are very hazardous things to cross, but not a real "problem" unless there's many of them.

Edited by VXJaeger, 10 January 2013 - 11:26 PM.

[ICEFANG13]

So you and your squad of 4 do not bring SSRMs or LRMs correct? A team with ECM will have the edge over your team still. You cannot tell what part is the weakest. And I'm not knocking your squad, but you can't even see what teammates are nearby with ECM. If one or two isn't there, you can't know that unless they say or you ask. People play PUGs, and its important its balanced that way. We can't make arguments that PUGs cannot deal with. Its a team game, and everyone should join a team, not everyone will, and we need new blood all the time.

I'm not saying ECM isn't unstoppable, but nothing else that weighs a ton and a half and 2 slots forces you to change tactics.

[Tolkien]

I had a chance to drop with a 4 man last night, and it was a good experience. We had a group member who enjoys playing a catapult so I put the TAG back on my Craven 3L. It was great against assaults, heavies and mediums, but against lights it was touch and go.

Frankly I also can't recommend putting TAG on a mech that doesn't have ECM itself since the relaying is broken when by ECM - a bit like a fire extinguisher that bursts into flames if it comes within sight of a fire. Not quite that bad, but you get the idea.

Also, to keep it on a fast moving light you have to be *in* a fast moving light.

TLDR; if you have a lobby to coordinate in, voice comm to call fire in, and competent team mates TAG is good, but you will still need a Raven 3L or cicada 3M, or commando 2D to reliably get the targeting info back to where it needs to be when dealing with another ECM mech. Otherwise it's just too easy for a competent enemy to cut your data relay.

Edited by Tolkien, 10 January 2013 - 11:53 PM.

[Roumata]

the Raven3L-population is out of control. 3 or 4 man teams piranha evrything, making more and more people ragequit and call this game sh**t.

....i dont want that happen to MY Game

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Roumata, on 10 January 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

the Raven3L-population is out of control. 3 or 4 man teams piranha evrything, making more and more people ragequit and call this game sh**t.

....i dont want that happen to MY Game

Seriously...? So the eff what. Before ECM it was Jenner packs forcing calls of DOOM™... EXACTLY like yours - wording and all. So you know what, since Jenner packs didn't kill the game THEN, I rather doubt that Raven packs are going to kill it NOW.

Grow up, and take off the tin foil hat.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 10 January 2013 - 11:59 PM.

[ICEFANG13]

True, I used to carry a TAG for relaying info, but the chance that an ECM mech gets in my face means I need to have another weapon to try and kill it. TAG is not reliable without ECM as well.

[MajorBorris]

Roumata, on 10 January 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

the Raven3L-population is out of control. 3 or 4 man teams piranha evrything, making more and more people ragequit and call this game sh**t.

....i dont want that happen to MY Game

I suspect if one rage quites over 3 lights, video games might not be that persons cup of tea.

Seriously though, squad builds with 3-4 lights are at a serious disadvantage more often than not.

There are far more mitigating circumstances that lead to a team loss.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

VXJaeger, on 10 January 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

ECM-lights are the main problem. Weapon convergence, firing delay on ballistics, size and lagshield make them nearly impossible to hit.
ECM-Atlas however is so BIG and slow that you can hit them. They are very hazardous things to cross, but not a real "problem" unless there's many of them.

Lights are supposed to be small and fast as their main defense. So take all those bugs out you listed and voila, half the problems with lights disappears.

Note that I leave out ECM. It really doesn't do a bloody thing to help, other than protect them from lock-on. Oh boy two weapons you can't use, unless you think it out prior to and/or during the game OR don't use those weapons.

So like many others you say that ECM is a straw breaking a camels back when it comes to lights. Frankly, once the problems that existed before ECM get cleared up I doubt many people will be still belly0-achin' quite so long and loud about ECM.

Oh and one thing that just occured to me. Only four mechs can carry ECM. Of those, one is an Assault, one is Medium and the other two are Lights. Now, of course, a Cicada is pretty much just a heavier Jenner, so it's usually lumped in to people's definition of "lights". So, the OP says that 80% of the griping about ECm is about 75% of the mechs who can use it? Sounds about right to me.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 11 January 2013 - 12:10 AM.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

MajorBorris, on 11 January 2013 - 12:07 AM, said:

I suspect if one rage quites over 3 lights, video games might not be that persons cup of tea.

Seriously though, squad builds with 3-4 lights are at a serious disadvantage more often than not.

There are far more mitigating circumstances that lead to a team loss.

Not to mention - oh wait I already did - that said light packs existed prior to ECM and will continue to exist, period.

One of MW:O's things that PGI wanted was to make it so that - unlike past MW games - any weight class could be viable in combat. Used to be that people only played lights for as long as it took to earn a better beefier mech. Anyone who played a light beyond that was some kind o' crazy. Not nearly as effective to do that then as it is now, so basically what this tin foil hatter is griping about is PGI has accomplished one of their goals.

So, gratz to PGI, and a big LOL for the tin foil hatter.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 11 January 2013 - 12:14 AM.

[Big Bad Wulf]

I remember 4 raven 3L's in Caustic Valley. They all died.

Apparently ECM does not work against prepared firing lines (so does running headon against an Atlas with an A/C 20).

I think ICEFANG13 placed it correctly, this is not about ECM being OP, this is about ECM forcing people to change their play style.

Most people hate change thus the abundance of complaints.

Otherwise for those of us who have adopted, life goes on and so does the fun.

I have been dropping all night till early moring and most common mech is the - Stalker, Catapault and Hunchback with this you get the others (Cataphracts, Centurions, Atlases (D,RS,K and DDC), Jenners, Ravens (3L, 2X and 4X) and comandos.

So if ECM is that powerfull why does my drop's not reflect that? If what the people in this forum postulated is true I should only be seeing the ECM mechs and the battlefield should be devoid of LRM's and SSRM's. But this is not the case, LRM's are alive and well and that is why my AMS is still installed.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

I've said the same Marcus. I listed the mechs I kill all-comers with on the previous page. Guess it just doesn't mesh with some people that this game isn't won by whining on the forums.

[Jespiry]

PUGS:
Team A - have ECM (probably 2-3-4 ecm mechs)
Team B - don't have ECM

Team B loose 99%.... just my statistics in pug...

= ECM overpowered if it have only one team....

[Kaeb Odellas]

My only issue with DDC ATLASES getting ECM is that it's already the best close combat variant with its 3 missile hardpoints. It simply doesn't need it. Give it to one of the lesser variants or something.

Also make ECM less stupidly powerful.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 11 January 2013 - 12:34 AM.

[Tolkien]

I don't have a problem with ECM on an Atlas conceptually, but I do have a problem with what ECM is doing right now.

While the tabletop folks are pulling their hair out because it's doing way more than it ever did on tabletop, the bigger problem is just the cost:benefit of it in game play terms. It is a better AMS than AMS is (AMS sucks against SRMs due to their high travel speed) and that is just 1/3 of its functions.

So to restate, I don't have a problem with ECM on any of the mechs, but I do have a problem with ECM doing so much for 1.5 tons.

[Big Bad Wulf]

Sir Roland MXIII, on 11 January 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

I've said the same Marcus. I listed the mechs I kill all-comers with on the previous page. Guess it just doesn't mesh with some people that this game isn't won by whining on the forums.

Its not about ECM itself but it's effect towards other people game play. Take my caustic valley example, The moment I noticed 4 lights on our team I knew what to expect relayed this to the rest (thankfully) they listened and true enough the ravens came flying through and got roasted.

you see ECM forces people to work together, there are those that just don't want that , and tnat is what the complaints are all about.

[LynxFury]

Marcus Wulf, on 11 January 2013 - 12:15 AM, said:

, this is about ECM forcing people to change their play style.

Most people hate change thus the abundance of complaints.

You're somewhat right. People hate having 50+ chassis variants to pick from and only a handful which are truly competitive and told a clear "NO" by drop commanders in organized drops as compared to at least several dozen that could find a place before ECM hit the field. It also completely trashes the viability of many good chassis in the cue. The might as well not field the trebuchet for example..

We see dramatic changes reflected in the mechs brought to the field, and sharp drop off of medium chassis, which are supposed to be the heart and soul of battletech, and the much more frequent brawls because it's much more difficult to destroy mechs as mid and long range. Not to mention some 250+ pages of commentary from the field to what has to be the most non-community beta team I've been part of through several games.

There would have been so many more elegant solutions to role warfare. Scouts for example being smaller could be the most difficult to detect and hence has a natural advantage, as well as having a bit better sensor range because there's less interference from their own mechs. It's hard to fathom why there isn't a passive and active sensor modes. Or why ECM doesn't both distort targeting but give away the general direction of it's broad scale jamming as it does in real life. The forum is filled with hundreds of suggestion that would work better than the discrete non BT and nothing like real world ECM that's currently in the game.

Edited by LynxFury, 11 January 2013 - 01:17 AM.