442 replies to this topic

[Inertiaman]

Equally do continue to break up the monotony by repeatedly stating your disdain.

It is over-stated - but also it's totally under-patched. When the two meet people will gladly shush. I certainly will.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Inertiaman, on 11 January 2013 - 03:15 AM, said:

Equally do continue to break up the monotony by repeatedly stating your disdain.

Oh it's not disdain, it's amusement. I find it really interesting to watch people say the same thing over and over, as if this will somehow change something, as if we need to say this repeatedly, because obviously it hasn't been said enough or hasn't been said by the right person.

I mean, finding original things to say is SO HARD!

Reading a thread to see if something has already been said is SO MUCH WORK!

EDIT - Not to mention the best part, which is all this chatter about just ECM belongs in the ECM feedback thread. So, not only is it not new, not only has it been said before in this very thread... it's not even being said in the right area.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 11 January 2013 - 03:22 AM.

[Inertiaman]

Yeah the thing is - PGI don't really have a good reputation for acting on (or even acknowledging) original, singular feedback via the correct feedback process.

They do however appear to lumber ungracefully into action on a subject after two solid months of forum spam and complaints culminating in several locked threads and presumably comments from near-suicidal forum moderators.

Unfortunately again though, they normally respond with a patch that makes the original thing worse and introduces something even more poorly designed and implemented. Case in point - I certainly haven't seen any Artemis complaints since ECM was introduced. Working as intended!

[Sir Roland MXIII]

You weren't here in Closed Beta then, if you think they don't listen to feedback. (EDIT Silly me, didn't check for Founders tag first. Facepalm self-adminstered. ) Remember when they announced the Beta was going from Closed to Open, there were a lot of performance bugs and problems that had everyone here responding with - in short - WTF ARE YOU THINKING when they announced that? They listened, AND they took a few other tips as well when they went into Open. That isn't unique, and frankly it's far from uncommon.

As far as Artemis goes, were you here the week it went live? THAT might explain a lot if you wonder why we don't complain about it now.

One thing to keep in mind too, is this game didn't have a single line of code laid down about a year ago. It's THAT new. If PGI is going slow, it might be a good thing. How far this game has come in this span of time is somewhat impressive, tbh. They say they prefer to release things right, rather than on time. Granted they've released some pretty broken stuff - see previous comment on Artemis. However they've got the right attitude.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 11 January 2013 - 03:38 AM.

[Inertiaman]

Yeah I've been playing since the start of CB. You might recall that they patched the living daylights out of Artemis immediately following hilarious uproar on the forums. Then they patched that broken patch. Then they patched it again.

Would that ECM received the same level of prompt attention.

Development - I think you're wide of the mark by some margin there.

http://www.pcgamer.c...ng-mechwarrior/
http://www.pcgamer.c...ves-the-series/
http://www.pcgamer.c...tical-mech-sim/

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Inertiaman, on 11 January 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

Yeah I've been playing since the start of CB.

Yup, as per the edit I caught the Founders Tag too late. Oops.

Inertiaman, on 11 January 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

You might recall that they patched the living daylights out of Artemis immediately following hilarious uproar on the forums. Then they patched that broken patch. Then they patched it again.

Would that ECM received the same level of prompt attention.

Eh.. maybe. I don't think it's as ON FIRE a problem as Artemis was. Man I will never forget that.

Inertiaman, on 11 January 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

Development - I think you're wide of the mark by some margin there.

http://www.pcgamer.c...ng-mechwarrior/
http://www.pcgamer.c...ves-the-series/
http://www.pcgamer.c...tical-mech-sim/

I recall the info I gave from Garth celebrating it in an announcement, last month. Maybe I recall it wrong? I have slept since then...

[Inertiaman]

I should separate this out a bit - because this is not intended as a PGI slamming thing. I would say however that there appears to be some fundamental issues with both design and QA and that those issues have really dragged this beta down throughout my time in it.

Sir Roland MXIII, on 11 January 2013 - 03:41 AM, said:

Eh.. maybe. I don't think it's as ON FIRE a problem as Artemis was.

From a new player perspective - it really should be considered as such imo.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Inertiaman, on 11 January 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

I should separate this out a bit - because this is not intended as a PGI slamming thing. I would say however that there appears to be some fundamental issues with both design and QA and that those issues have really dragged this beta down throughout my time in it.

Oh I don't disagree and I don't 'hear' you as bashing PGI. I'm not impressed with them and I am. Just depends on what we're talking about when it comes to PGI.

Inertiaman, on 11 January 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

From a new player perspective - it really should be considered as such imo.

Perhaps. Maybe it should get the same yank they gave KD. I wouldn't have a problem with that, tbh.

[Inertiaman]

There (and rather OT but what the hell) I really must disagree - KD, stats, wins and losses should be right up there for everyone to see. If this game is to offer longevity it has to do so on competitiveness. It's hardly going to achieve it on progression is it?

In all the best competitive games, stats are king and even though the gentlemen of the TT don't seem to like it, they provide massive incentive to gamers elsewhere and introduce an entire layer of personal/team progression that simply isn't there right now. I don't know who the best mwo player is, I don't even know how good/bad I am. These things are utterly fundamental to the endurance of a match-centric game and I hope will be generously represented in ELO/CW or whatever other mythical beast PGI claim to have locked up in their offices.

Stats - you don't have to care about them yourself but a decent implementation of competition play and the surrounding peen waving will help ensure that you have people to play against still in a couple of years time.

[Jetfire]

Yeah, until the netcode is fixed we all know lights are a problem. Even 1 raven 3L with any other 3 fast mechs is going to do some damage if no one has tag or lasers or srm's or can lead with ballistics... Once the netcode is fixed and collisions are back in this stuff will be much better.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Jetfire, on 11 January 2013 - 03:52 AM, said:

Yeah, until the netcode is fixed we all know lights are a problem. Even 1 raven 3L with any other 3 fast mechs is going to do some damage if no one has tag or lasers or srm's or can lead with ballistics... Once the netcode is fixed and collisions are back in this stuff will be much better.

Right, but that basically just points to the fact that, the equation used as this threads title could have ECM taken out of it and as long as KD isn't in, and netcode / prediction code IS, they'd still be difficult to deal with.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 11 January 2013 - 03:56 AM.

[Jesus Box]

D-DC is my favorite variant. I got my umbrella in one hand and my booze in the other.

Btw, it's Atlases.

Edited by Jesus Box, 11 January 2013 - 05:18 AM.

[Inertiaman]

They'd be far easier to LRM though.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Inertiaman, on 11 January 2013 - 04:00 AM, said:

They'd be far easier to LRM though.

Well it'd be square one. And while it's out they could rip the Angel ECM and Null Signature elements OUT of the Guardian ECM this is SUPPOSED to be, without having a one-note-army of ECM feedback. Or if there was one, it'd change tunes.

Besides. One unit of AMS, and one unit of AMS ammo, one and half tons, and two crit spaces. <innocent look>

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 11 January 2013 - 04:03 AM.

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

Sir Roland MXIII, on 11 January 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

[...] They say they prefer to release things right, rather than on time. [...]

lol'd

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Hey I got a laugh out of it too. But considering how they've done so far with THAT attitude I think the alternative would be WORSE.

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

But seriously, it doesn't matter what they SAY (and they say a lot of things btw), it does matter what they DO.

[Marius Malthus]

it's not ilegal to use 4 ecm ravens in a match. it's very very annoying but legal.
what ****** me of is the lag shield.... that's really really bad. and now with a new mech (spider) that does the same stock speed as a maxed out raven, it'«s gonna get worst.

[Stingz]

1-2 ECM D-DCs isn't a problem, only when they start stacking 3+ it's a problem. Not many teams are prepared to take on that much weight + ECM at the same time.

[chiXnhawk]

The problem is not ECM. Sure it does a little more then expected. But it's not bad. The biggest problem is Ravens , netcode , being the prime culprits of using them. I personally don't use ECM or any of the chasis that use them. My Atlas is forever the RS. But what is needed is different soloutions. So I came up with a few.

1. ECM destructable. Give it 3 HP and even do some pop damage. Like a Gauss. Not as big an explosion of course but make it removable for skilled shots like when dealing with a target with gauss.

2. Give ECM it's own hardpoint if your going to take it. Once you know an enemy has ECM on what chasis , you know where it is and you can work to remove it if you so choose.

3. Make BAP and/or modules do more to counter or decrease the effects of ECM , at least for the person who took all the time to unlock the skills and modules for the mechs they are using. This could be as much as having BAP , Target info and sensor range Modules be able to to be combined to completely nulify ECM. Thus this would bring back mechs that are disapearing because people think they need to bring ECM to counter ECM. Of course BAP should be destructable as well. They should cost weight and critt slots to bring them. That would balance it out some.

4. Of course fixing the netcode would solve 50% of ECM's claim to fame.

If your dead set on bringing weapons that require lock it's always going to be a crap shoot. LRMs will always do better on Caustic then on River city. You will never know if your going to see ECM'd mechs or in the matter of my fixes mechs built to counter those builds.
I think ECM is fine the way it is. I think there should be ways to add to your builds to counter it better and there should be ways to remove it from your enemy in game if your skilled enough ( or lucky enough ) in your shooting.