442 replies to this topic

[Corvus Antaka]

The NARC bonus is pretty funny given that ECM makes NARC useless. Hopefully we will see changes to ECM soon.

[Capt Cole 117]

Even before ECM LRMs were easy to avoid. ECM while not game breaking certainly reduces variety. LRMs, TAG, NARC, BAP, Artemis, and AMS are a waste of space and tonnage. It also discourages use of atlas, cicada, raven, and commando variants that can't carry ECM.

[warp103]

Repost from today from Garth and Me.

Ok to all about ECM. After a long conversation with Garth. I see the problem as to why there is no comment on ECM.

The dev do not see the issue. Now I will not go in to all the detail about his comments. But they are pointing to how they fair in the twitch games. They do not use ECM and win most of the time.. And they are only seeing in stats 8v8 game 4 ecm's max. So the only thing that I can say is Video video video. Get TS because is what they us in the twitch games. I do not agree with him but I have respect that I got info.

I know that you want me to post the Answer that I got. Sorry I can not If he wishes he can tell me I can post then I will.

OH and Tolken, I did post your stats and finding you have. As well as the stat and videos I have of my own. More Pointing to their on play.

So again the all need to post how bad it is so they will have a visual. Video if possible so it goes around the web. As to the Boycott. I was going to be part of it since there was no Answers. Well i got Answers I do not like them but I did get them.

Edited by warp103, 08 January 2013 - 05:14 PM.

[CaveHermit]

The best way to fix ECM is to allow everyone to mount it. How did I come to this conclusion.. Well i thank my special needs grand-daughter and her love of The Incredibles..



Discuss or Not.. Just my .02 C-Bill worth.

[Corvus Antaka]

warp103, on 08 January 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Repost from today from Garth and Me.

Ok to all about ECM. After a long conversation with Garth. I see the problem as to why there is no comment on ECM.

The dev do not see the issue. Now I will not go in to all the detail about his comments. But they are pointing to how they fair in the twitch games. They do not use ECM and win most of the time.. And they are only seeing in stats 8v8 game 4 ecm's max. So the only thing that I can say is Video video video. Get TS because is what they us in the twitch games. I do not agree with him but I have respect that I got info.

I know that you want me to post the Answer that I got. Sorry I can not If he wishes he can tell me I can post then I will.

OH and Tolken, I did post your stats and finding you have. As well as the stat and videos I have of my own. More Pointing to their on play.

So again the all need to post how bad it is so they will have a visual. Video if possible so it goes around the web. As to the Boycott. I was going to be part of it since there was no Answers. Well i got Answers I do not like them but I did get them.

unless they are doing 8v8 matches, 4 man drops mean nothing, and niether does pugging. Some clarity on how they are not seeing such an obvious issue would be great. Such as: the fact that indirect fire weapons & locking weapons can/are useless, as is radar now. Or the fact that I used to play all 16 of my mechs, now, I play about 4 variants max. Not fun.

[PeekaBoo I C Ju]

And Yet another QQ thread....Dear lord I am gonna need a Canoe

[ICEFANG13]

Tolkien, on 08 January 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

So people can get back up to speed on the ECM debate, here's a copy of the question put in the most recent ask the devs: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1712396

I know the question is a little long, but the 2nd part has a link to a small study I did on the effects of the number of ECMs on each team and the odds of that team winning. The spread is a lot higher than you would probably expect, even knowing ECM is powerful.




If you like the question being asked, and dislike the fact that the previous two versions with a combined ~300 likes didn't get answered, please like the one in ask the devs 30.

EVERYONE that feels strongly about ECM and/or Devs answering very important questions (even if you feel that ECM is fine, they should explain it for a question with so much support and not ignore it).

Fireye, on 08 January 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

PGI has said that they intend to wait a month after the implementation of ECM to re-examine it. How can you be surprised that they haven't said anything firm since it hasn't been a month?

Like that "Working as Intended" 6 days after? 6 days is almost a month.

Gremlich Johns, on 08 January 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

Due to the lack of consideration regarding the ECM issue, I am taking a break from MW:O gameplay for one 7-day week. A boycott if you will. I advocate one of two courses of action if you have continuing concerns about PGI's ECM implementation:

1) do not play for a week;
2) use your ECM and be a real pill with it.

There is a 3rd option, posting/informing about your concerns, but answers are slow in coming, if at all. Please do not rage if you choose this option. It would serve nothing.

I do not have an ECM capable mech. While this ECM cloaking suite, and the lack of knockdown, gives lights the ability to kill assaults relatively easily, I refuse to purchase one.

Disparage me all you want if you love the ECM, but I actually have used ECM and understand the concepts (and science) under which it operates. And leave Shtora out of this, that is a passive-countermeasures sensor package that reacts (meaning becomes active) when "illuminated" by laser target designators and ATGM laser rangefinder systems. The IR "jamming" system uses two IR illuminators, essentially pink light searchlights that make viewing the target difficult (but not impossible) - this will have no impact on thermal sights (which depends on heat being given off by the target (different freq than IR)) One form of protection is has, upon being illuminated, is the release of smoke screen grenades which release a screen which prevents IR and clear optical observation. Last I checked, PGI's ECM does not have that latter capability.

PGI's ECM is magic, being used to cloak a main force because it can be. You may cite that this system is in canon, but you do not care that it is 3050 and nobody used a scout to cloak a combat force in the fiction. This is not actually Information Warfare - I know what that involves as well. Methinks some have been or are mis-informed. If PGI wants to use it, they should know what it actually is and intelligently implement it, not just bits that they think might work well for their purposes.

The NARC/TAG bogus, errr, bonus is just throwing money to make a problem go away. If ECM was fixed, NARC and TAG would be just fine.

It's only a week and I doubt my absence will be felt. See you next Tuesday in a match. Maybe.

I agree completely. If I play, and I am playing less and less of a game I wanted to play more and more of. I'm bringing my Raven-3L, I will tell everyone when the match starts that I am, and I will tell them that there is nothing they can do about it, except bring their own. PGI has to wake up about ECM. In one week, that is when we will make a very organized and group effort to bring attention to this matter.

warp103, on 08 January 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Repost from today from Garth and Me.

Ok to all about ECM. After a long conversation with Garth. I see the problem as to why there is no comment on ECM.

The dev do not see the issue. Now I will not go in to all the detail about his comments. But they are pointing to how they fair in the twitch games. They do not use ECM and win most of the time.. And they are only seeing in stats 8v8 game 4 ecm's max. So the only thing that I can say is Video video video. Get TS because is what they us in the twitch games. I do not agree with him but I have respect that I got info.

I know that you want me to post the Answer that I got. Sorry I can not If he wishes he can tell me I can post then I will.

OH and Tolken, I did post your stats and finding you have. As well as the stat and videos I have of my own. More Pointing to their on play.

So again the all need to post how bad it is so they will have a visual. Video if possible so it goes around the web. As to the Boycott. I was going to be part of it since there was no Answers. Well i got Answers I do not like them but I did get them.

One must wonder, why does 4 of 8 seem like the number is correct? You'd expect to see 1/51 if all mechs were balanced (and they are not, to be completely fair). Half of the mechs use ECM in 8 mans? Great balance.

Peekaboo I C JU, on 08 January 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

And Yet another QQ thread....Dear lord I am gonna need a Canoe

At page 153+ of ECM feedback, you won't need a Canoe, more like Starship Enterprise.

[Texas Merc]

just left a match where other team had 2 ddcs 1 com2d and 2 raven 3l in a Pug.

couldnt hit any of the lights as they were warping all around and they made quick work of me and the other puglets...

If its working as intended then they are going to lose alot of new players if groups like that are still running around.

[Frostblade]

As a brand new player but long time MW fan, one of the first things I think about when I enter a drop is who has ecm and I wonder how many ecm mechs the other team has. simply because I know that ecm means a dome of stealth for us and/or them. So IF I happen to rarely take my catapult with TAG and lrm Artemis I stay close to my group and when we encounter an ecm enemy group I pull back just enough not to get rushed and far enough to setup TAG line of sight.

OK now I'm in position ready to hold TAG down to counter the ecm atlas and his friends while watching my flanks to make sure I'm guarded by teammates. My team is mixing it up and what's this? An ecm raven is rushing me, he just came out of heavy cover and is now flipping his switch from ecm stealth to ecm jamming. Radar for the team is down, other teammates are busy fighting. OK i try to evade the jamming dome to get some Los TAG targets. by now I see the enemy mixing it up mid range so here is an opportunity to use TAG but this ecm raven is still around making it difficult to keep track of my teammates position while trying to hold Tag on an enemy target. Boom I run into a phract who was under another's ecm stealth bubble. I can't disengage I can't use Tag while getting pummeled. My lrms are useless. Time to go lasers but too little too late I die and eventually the team gets steamrolled by an ecm rush. This happens more times. People on team speak tell me don't use lrms it ruins the team.

I go back to mechbay and design all my mechs with direct fire because I have learned its too much trouble to bother with lrms. I do better damage and start winning a lot. Now I chuckle when I see someone in an lrm boat.

Tl;Dr
I'm new and learned ecm makes lrms crap and direct fire is king

[Sudden Reversal]

So no ECm fix nor any Lagshield fix.

If you live outside North America, basically time to pilot a Craven or stop playing.

Reckon it is time to do the latter.

[Blood78]

warp103, on 08 January 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Repost from today from Garth and Me.

Ok to all about ECM. After a long conversation with Garth. I see the problem as to why there is no comment on ECM.

The dev do not see the issue. Now I will not go in to all the detail about his comments. But they are pointing to how they fair in the twitch games. They do not use ECM and win most of the time.. And they are only seeing in stats 8v8 game 4 ecm's max. So the only thing that I can say is Video video video. Get TS because is what they us in the twitch games. I do not agree with him but I have respect that I got info.

I know that you want me to post the Answer that I got. Sorry I can not If he wishes he can tell me I can post then I will.

OH and Tolken, I did post your stats and finding you have. As well as the stat and videos I have of my own. More Pointing to their on play.

So again the all need to post how bad it is so they will have a visual. Video if possible so it goes around the web. As to the Boycott. I was going to be part of it since there was no Answers. Well i got Answers I do not like them but I did get them.

Using this logic basically means this...

You: Hey, I found this bug and it's game breaking
Them: Hey, I can't see the problem it's not breaking for me so what issue are you talking about?

Another old running programming joke....

QA: Hey I found this problem and it needs to be fixed.
DEV: Hey, it works on my machine. What problem?

Real way to show that there is a problem is to run 4 man ECM streak Raven 3L and swarm r*pe stuff non-stop and make more playerbase QQ. Another way is for a clan to just run 8 ECM mechs and r*pe stuff as well.

Edited by Blood78, 08 January 2013 - 08:13 PM.

[Deadmeat99]

Another night, another round of battles decided completely by ECM. Every pub game I get in, if I see a team that doesn't have ECM, that team loses. And not a close loss, a complete ****. Every. Single. Time. I'm beginning to regret the money I spent on this game if this is how it's going to be.

[Ronin Cahill]

I have to Concur with this fella..BAP is supposed to have some ability to pierce ECM. all electronics have a counter; this world should not be any different.
Ronin


Improve BAP with some piercing capabilities and set ECCM mode to counter the nearest 2 ECM's and problem solved. See previous thread for lots of module options to tweak the dynamics.

[Noth]

As has been repeated many times before. Just make ECM work like in table top with some small changes. Make it block Artemis, BAP, NARC, and target sharing. Don't make it prevent target acquistion (ok make it lower detection range to 400-600, not the ridiculous 200 meters it is at currently). Don't make it prevent locks. You could also make it cause LRMs and even streaks to spread more when an ECM effected mech is targeted.

[Icemantas]

I found a solution to ECM problem.
If pwned by ECM light mech - just Alt+f4 and go to next mech.

no need to frustrate on BUG (ECM is a bug, not a feature)
and maybe if ECM insect players get frustrated on disconnecting targets they will get into real mechs

[PPO Kuro]

Personally I don't think PGI will change ECM anytime soon. Since ECM my enjoyment of MWO has gone from 85-90% to 45-50%. (I know it shouldn't be important for me) But my death and win/lose ration, xp and C-bills earned have plummeted with about 30%.

I'm extremely annoyed that ECM is now a required piece of equipment. Not to mention the horrible annoying Ravens with ecm, 2 x ssrm and 4 x ML doing nasty stuff to my @ ss.

Edited by PPO Kuro, 09 January 2013 - 03:27 AM.

[Kmieciu]

PPO Kuro, on 09 January 2013 - 03:26 AM, said:

Ravens with ecm, 2 x ssrm and 4 x ML doing nasty stuff to my @ ss.

RVN-3L only has 3 energy hardpoints...

[PPO Kuro]

Kmieciu, on 09 January 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

RVN-3L only has 3 energy hardpoints...

Nitpicker

[Slanski]

Repeating myself:

ECM is easy to fix:
Just permit one counter ECM to switch off all ECM within its range, not require numerical superiority. So one raven/D-DC could neutralize all enemy ECM in the slugfest and brawl. The current setup requires you to have more ECM, this proposition would just require having at least one durable ECM to counter.

[Noth]

Slanski, on 09 January 2013 - 05:11 AM, said:

Repeating myself:

ECM is easy to fix:
Just permit one counter ECM to switch off all ECM within its range, not require numerical superiority. So one raven/D-DC could neutralize all enemy ECM in the slugfest and brawl. The current setup requires you to have more ECM, this proposition would just require having at least one durable ECM to counter.

That's how it worked when first put in the game and it was still a huge issue and not balanced.