82 replies to this topic

[DerHuhnTeufel]

This is NOT about lagshield or ECM. There are plenty of other threads for those topics.

Right now, I think lights really get the short end of the stick. There are simply too many medium and heavy mechs that are just as fast, or so close that they can easily keep pace with the "faster and maneuverable" light mech that isn't faster or more maneuverable. Hell, virtually all of the hero mechs fall into that category. Once the net code is fixed, they're basically going to be fodder, doubly so once collision is back in. Why bother with a light that dies in 2 well placed shots when you can do just as well in a medium or heavy? I don't think a light should be able to handle an assault mech on their own, but at the same time they really are outclassed in the areas they're supposed to be best in.

Obviously ECM and lagshield are casting a pretty big pall over things right now, but what are your thoughts on the speed and maneuverability of the various weight classes?

[Bguk]

It's not even fixed and we're getting this thread. Didn't you read Agent's timeline of complaints?

I think the speed is fine. Light mechs have enough speed to get away from any mech. Just have to be smart about it. Don't go flying into the open, say on Caustic, and expect to zip right back behind a rock formation for safety. I would expect to get hit a bit on the way. And with good shots, get annihilated.

[The Mecha Streisand]

Bguk, on 09 January 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

I think the speed is fine. Light mechs have enough speed to get away from any mech. Just have to be smart about it. Don't go flying into the open, say on Caustic, and expect to zip right back behind a rock formation for safety. I would expect to get hit a bit on the way. And with good shots, get annihilated.

+1

[FerretGR]

No dude. The Cicadas can compete, but other than that, there are no mediums or heavies that are anywhere near as fast as the lights... Ravens and Jenners can go like 140kph.

[Kaldor]

I think the Commando and possibly Spider will need a speed boost if and when they get the netcode and gravity working right. The Jenner, Raven, and Cicada seem about right for overall speed vs firepower vs survivability.

[Agent of Change]

Zoomy mech good, slow mech bad.

That said That's for the shout out BGUK, for everyone else look here. This would fall kinda under generic topics so next week would be appropriate otherwise i'd hold it until the next Light mech topic week.

This message brought to you buy the MUCCMC.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kaldor out of the box the Spider is the fasted light Mech. IIRC it is just as fast as a Cicada (maybe faster). Lets let the Spider hit the battlefields before we question it's top speed.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 09 January 2013 - 07:11 AM.

[FiveDigits]

A good light (or Cicada) moves at 130-150 kph. A fast medium (or Dragon) goes 80-110 kph.
I think ~40 kph is plenty of difference.

Edited by FiveDigits, 09 January 2013 - 07:12 AM.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Mediums - let's take the Hunchback or Centurion as the usual example - normally go as fast as 70 to 80 kph without speed tweak (since it's not fair to count that it, because lights can unlock it, too), which should be easily beaten by lights. If it's not then they probably did something to make their mech more combat worthy or put ECM in and tried to still make it combat worthy...and please excuse me, but that is their own damn fault.

What do you expect? A mech that outruns and outguns a medium while being nimbler and harder to hit plus maybe ECM on top of that, right?

There have to be at least SOME compromises. But I get the feeling that this community is full of "greedy" people.


PS: XL-engines, yeah, but you always pay for this with durability. Mediums are there to fight, mostly on the frontline. Putting an XL-engine in should not be the usual thing to do.

.

Edited by GODzillaGSPB, 09 January 2013 - 07:15 AM.

[Bagheera]

OP, you must be new here. Because had you been in Closed Beta before Chassis Based Engine Restrictions were implemented, AND you were a light pilot at the time, your tears would have been all over this board back then, and you would be counting your blessings currently that mediums and heavies aren't that fast anymore - by and large.

Because people like me were running 113kph HBK-4SPs, or 130kph CN9-(whichever it is that has 3 missle slots)'s and ruining light mech's days.

And since they designed said restrictions to be based on stock engine size, those days are coming back in the form of the Trebuchet. (all of them are 250 stock, except one with 300xl stock.) Even if they don't give us the fast variant, a 325 in a 50 ton chassis is plenty fast to murder lights, though speed comes at quite a cost in most >50 ton chassis.

Hell, apparently you don't remember the days of 90kph AWS-8R's rocking ML and SRM6 arrays either.

Joseph Mallan, on 09 January 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

Kaldor out of the box the Spider is the fasted light Mech. IIRC it is just as fast as a Cicada (maybe faster). Lets let the Spider hit the battlefields before we question it's top speed.

Unless it hits the netcode speed limit (i forget the equation) the Spider should be able to take a 335 rated engine under engine upgrade rules. In TT that would give it like 11/17? Around 180kph here if I am estimating it right. Fastest Cicada, netcode speed wall not withstanding, I think works out to about the same.

Edited by Bagheera, 09 January 2013 - 07:21 AM.

[The Mecha Streisand]

Jenner with 300XL and speed tweak runs just a smidge over 150. Raven with 280XL and speed tweak runs 142 or so. At least, that's registered speed on HUD. That's the outer limit of what MW:O allows right now, so the Cicada-versus-Raven-versus-Jenner-versus-Spider discussion is pretty much a moot point until the artificial speed cap is removed.

The ONLY advantage a Cicada offers over a Raven is a torso ballistic hard point. On the other hand, I can run a slightly smaller engine in a Raven and carry 2ML, 2ASRM-6, TAG and ECM. The ECM Cicada can't touch it for firepower, and carries about the same armor load. AND it's 5 tons heavier.

Maybe the 3L Raven IS OP...

[The Mecha Streisand]

Thontor, on 09 January 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

This is about the lag shield though... The Tonnage*8.5 engine rating limit is to prevent the lag shield from being even worse. Once they fix the lag shield, they should be able to remove, or at least raise, the tonnage based engine rating limit.

Without that limit, Jenners would be able to go 175.65 with Speed Tweak, and Spiders would be able to go 201.96 with Speed Tweak... Commandos and Ravens aren't limited by the 8.5x limit so their speed wouldn't change.

A Cicada would be able to go 178.2 with Speed Tweak btw... But its more an oversized light mech than a true medium.

Pretty much every other mech's engine rating is limited by the stock engine rating multiplier, so they wouldn't be effected by removal of the tonnage multiplier

Good to know. So, I guess I WILL be selling my JR7-K for a Spider next week...

[Bagheera]

Thontor, on 09 January 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

This is about the lag shield though... The Tonnage*8.5 engine rating limit is to prevent the lag shield from being even worse. Once they fix the lag shield, they should be able to remove, or at least raise, the tonnage based engine rating limit.

Without that limit, Jenners would be able to go 175.65 with Speed Tweak, and Spiders would be able to go 201.96 with Speed Tweak... Commandos and Ravens aren't limited by the 8.5x limit so their speed wouldn't change.

A Cicada would be able to go 178.2 with Speed Tweak btw... But its more an oversized light mech than a true medium.

Pretty much every other mech's engine rating is limited by the stock engine rating multiplier, so they wouldn't be effected by removal of the tonnage multiplier

Just to clarify this.

There are two distinct speed limits currently in place. The above refers to the overal netcode speed wall that caps top speed for everything, but since not all mechs can achieve that, only the fastest are affected.

The other limitation is that max engine size is a function of stock engine size. Even when netcode is fixed and the speed wall removed, the engine restrictions will remain in play.

I figure you know that, but trying to prevent misunderstanding about what will happen to mech speeds when netcode limitations are gone.

[Kunae]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 January 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

Kaldor out of the box the Spider is the fasted light Mech. IIRC it is just as fast as a Cicada (maybe faster). Lets let the Spider hit the battlefields before we question it's top speed.

Unless they change their rules, the Spider's max engine is a 255, with a top speed of 137.7.

We don't need it to hit the battle-fields to do math.

[Armorpiercer M82]

the difference between light and medium is too much.

[Kaldor]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 January 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

Kaldor out of the box the Spider is the fasted light Mech. IIRC it is just as fast as a Cicada (maybe faster). Lets let the Spider hit the battlefields before we question it's top speed.

I know, and thats the problem I feel. The Spider is going to be artificially limited by the game itself. It will be a fast mech that goes roughly the same speed as the rest of the lights that has alot less firepower. The advantage it should have is greater speed to get away from the Jenners, Ravens, and Cicadas. I feel the Commando should have the same setup as its relatively lightly armored compared to the other fast mechs.

30plusRAbbi, on 09 January 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

Maybe the 3L Raven IS OP...

Yes, and its not the mech itself, but a combination of broken hitboxes, netcode, and ECM. Fix the hitboxes first, and then they will be able to be reliably hit by direct fire weapons. Netcode is part of the problem as well, but honestly I can hit any of the other fast lights even with the bad netcode. ECM is screwed up, and needs to be split out into 2-3 pieces of gear as per canon.

[Joseph Mallan]

Part of that is intentional. i heard there was no speed cap at one point in CB. And Commandos were unstoppable due to lag. It is why we have the caps we do now.

[lordkrike]

Kunae, on 09 January 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

Unless they change their rules, the Spider's max engine is a 255, with a top speed of 137.7.

We don't need it to hit the battle-fields to do math.

Adding in speed tweak, this hits 150kph. That is fine.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kunae, on 09 January 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

Unless they change their rules, the Spider's max engine is a 255, with a top speed of 137.7.

We don't need it to hit the battle-fields to do math.

Aimed more towards trying to declare the Mech "useless" before it hits the game, but thanks for the max speed info!

[The Mecha Streisand]

Kaldor, on 09 January 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

Yes, and its not the mech itself, but a combination of broken hitboxes, netcode, and ECM. Fix the hitboxes first, and then they will be able to be reliably hit by direct fire weapons. Netcode is part of the problem as well, but honestly I can hit any of the other fast lights even with the bad netcode. ECM is screwed up, and needs to be split out into 2-3 pieces of gear as per canon.

Honestly, even with the throttle at full and constantly altering my turn radius, a LOT of heavy/assault pilots can still tag me somewhat consistently with PPC's, even inside their minimum range. I got legged in a match last night by a Stalker and a Cataphract--1 PPC shot each, plus one more for the kill shot. I understand that the hitboxes don't match up all that well with the Raven, but even so I've most often been killed in my 3L by PPCs and UAC/5's.