69 replies to this topic

[Valore]

EDIT: I have edited out references to mental deficiencies of any kind, as people seem to be incapable of reading past that. (quite possibly proving my original point )

If you've spent any amount of time on the forums, you're sure to have witnessed people on both sides putting across their arguments in a way that suggests colossal mental incompetence. This was what I was referring to. Anyone with any measure of impartiality can see both sides have relevant points. /edit

I had discussion recently with a friend, who (rightfully) pointed out that many people complaining about this game are doing so in a way that is both unreasonable and in a manner that's far from constructive.

This game is a Beta, it should/will improve. Hopefully PGI gets it right sooner rather than later, but there you go, we don't really have a say in this.

But one point I think is beyond dispute: PGI is currently not handling this 'beta' issue very well.

What do I mean? Simple.

Symptom:

Many people complaining.

PARTIALLY correct reason:

People are not clever, and have no idea what a Beta entails, or have the wrong expectations of a Beta.

However:

MAIN REASON:

PGI have completely fluffed up and muddied the waters in establishing people's expectations as to what the game currently is (a Beta).

Result:

Some people really had/have no idea this is a Beta. Especially from the ads. Even the 'Beta' addendum to the client was only added very recently a patch or two ago.

-----------------

I'm sure many of you have seen the Google AdSense MWO ads. Now of all the things that come to mind when you see those ads, where does 'BETA' come to mind?

Its certainly not one of the first few.

So you have excited people clicking, coming in, and signing on.

Then being comprehensively... violated through the exit portion of their anatomy.

Or tearing their hair out because of technical issues, of which quite a few exist. Completely within normal limits for a beta. Something that doesn't assuage anger to someone unaware of said beta status.

And futilely searching for some official documentation to help them along... and finding little exists aside from some useful community guides we have.

Made far worse by the fact MW/BT isn't exactly that intuitive to get into.

The attrition rate for new players to MWO must currently be atrocious. And the worst thing is, people probably have little to no idea at all this is a beta.

Considering the not insignificant amount of money that is charged by AdSense, it just seems like such a colossal waste.

Maybe its a matter of trying to stop the play now all the horses have exited stage left. But this is one thing that PGI should be looking at trying to address alongside getting the game up to scratch.

Surely having people try MWO in its current state under such wrong impressions, have them get upset, then go and badmouth the game to a bunch of their other friends isn't something PGI wants to be putting money into.

If those of us who KNOW this is a beta get can get annoyed as it is, surely the experience for others must be far worse.

Edited by Valore, 10 January 2013 - 04:53 AM.

[Wormrex]

Well, one or two decades ago a game in beta stage IS considered unfinished, no matter how rough it is people accepted it as unfinished.

To be able to beta test WAS a privilege..

These days folks seem to take things for granted. When they play a game they expect it to be... perfect the way they want it.

Partial truth is most of the time worse than a lie.

[Valore]

Wormrex, on 09 January 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

Well, one or two decades ago a game in beta stage IS considered unfinished, no matter how rough it is people accepted it as unfinished.

To be able to beta test WAS a privilege..

These days folks seem to take things for granted. When they play a game they expect it to be... perfect the way they want it.

Partial truth is most of the time worse than a lie.

I agree with this, but this is exactly what I mean by muddying up the waters.

Unfortunately when you're happy to take money from people, not to mentioned combined with the whole F2P concept which is still largely undefined, you're just asking for a misunderstanding.

And you can plead misunderstanding all you want, but it won't help when that annoyed person who was mislead has already badmouthed your game to all his friends.

[Ilwrath]

Wormrex, on 09 January 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

Well, one or two decades ago a game in beta stage IS considered unfinished, no matter how rough it is people accepted it as unfinished.

To be able to beta test WAS a privilege..

Did you use to pay for that privilege?

[Khanahar]

Ilwrath, on 10 January 2013 - 12:57 AM, said:

Did you use to pay for that privilege?

I paid to get into StarCraft 2's beta. Many of us did. And man was that game hilariously imbalanced back then. One patch completely broke the game, eliminating all but one build as viable. But they fixed it, improved it, launched, and eventually got it all balanced and ready.

And now the expansion is coming out and its all happening again.

[Aedensin]

I was kinda stunned during the "not beta" rant infestation.

There were even a few people that decided this was the finished product and it was never changing.

BTW some people forget what Donating is, it makes me sad.

[DrSecretStache]

Conclusions like these are why we never get tidbits of information on most published games. Makes me sad.

It's not like this is the exception to the rule. This is what most all games are like. Minecraft. SC2, as was mentioned. Those are just examples. Lots of games that are released, not just in beta, are completely riddled with bugs. But then developers patch it. People are happy.

I'm really happy that we get to see this cycle of development...for free, no less (I'm talkin closed beta too, that was a priveledge). This is how most games work. They get bugs. Bugs get fixed.

[Ravennus]

Valore, on 09 January 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

I had discussion recently with a friend, who (rightfully) pointed out that many people complaining about this game are mentally deficient.

I mostly stopped reading right there.
To absolutely generalize every player of MWO who has a problem with the game and call them mentally unfit is questionable at best, troll behavior at worst.


I won't even bother replying to the rest as it is my opinion that you are just baiting people.

[Valore]

Ravennus, on 10 January 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

I mostly stopped reading right there.
To absolutely generalize every player of MWO who has a problem with the game and call them mentally unfit is questionable at best, troll behavior at worst.


I won't even bother replying to the rest as it is my opinion that you are just baiting people.

Good because I dread to imagine what kind of incoherent response I would get from someone whose version of the English language equates 'many' to mean 'everybody'.

[Antony Weiner]

All IGP/PGI had to do is allow everyone a COMPLETE MC RESET after the actual launch. Would have been an end of discussion right there, huge win for everyone. IGP/PGI would have probably even made more "instant money," since more people would have bought MC right now. Furthermore, MC reset would have been seen as a PR victory by the overwhelming majority of the game population, allowing to further expand the player-base. All they had to do to significantly compensate for the lost revenue of the MC reset was to WORK HARDER and release a ton of new content (mechs, heroes, vanity items) on the actual launch. Oh well, I guess not everyone is gifted to properly analyze markets.

You see, people get real serious when they start spending real money. And real serious for silly people equals pissed and "instantly disheartened." So, an argument that "It's Beta, suck it up, worship the devs for letting you play now" is borderline worthless. If "It's Beta" and "not for realz," why is my premium time MC disappears "for realz?" I am not complaining about personal issues with how I spend my income, I am simply pointing out the "mechanics" behind the forum flame.

Edited by Antony Weiner, 10 January 2013 - 01:26 AM.

[Ravennus]

Valore, on 10 January 2013 - 01:24 AM, said:

Good because I dread to imagine what kind of incoherent response I would get from someone whose version of the English language equates 'many' to mean 'everybody'.

I'm glad you picked up on that. It was my own 'bait' to see if you would show your true colors. I'm glad it worked.

[BlightFang]

Valore, on 09 January 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

But one point I think is beyond dispute: PGI is currently not handling this 'beta' issue very well.

That is quite opinionative. I actually think they are handling the 'beta' issue decently. As far as I can tell, this thread is as much a complaint as any other complaining thread.

Valore, on 09 January 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

I had discussion recently with a friend, who (rightfully) pointed out that many people complaining about this game are mentally deficient.

I feel like there is some simple logical junction between this and the other quoted statement... But it may be just so simple that its eluding me...

[Lucky Noob]

i dont understand all that Complainers.

Its an nice Game to play, witch every patch the Game becomes more variaty in gameplay. I see much moree different Mechschassis and variants now as before.

Slowly People get used to ecm , use more mixed weaponloadouts to be prepared.

We get an new Mode and with the new Patch its hell a fun to win by Resources.

We constantly get new Mechs more cocpititems ( i still miss my fuzzy Dice )

We got camospecs and lotta colors to play with.

Netcodes slowly gets a bit better. the FPS raise for most Players.

SO i see MWO on an good way having in Mind its an small Team who make this game.

Sure they make fumbles (anyone remembers the LRM Patch )
but hey its getting better every week for me.

Give the Game some Month and it will start to realy shine.

[The Cheese]

I'm pretty sure they claim it's a AAA title too

Wormrex, on 09 January 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

Well, one or two decades ago a game in beta stage IS considered unfinished, no matter how rough it is people accepted it as unfinished.

To be able to beta test WAS a privilege..

These days folks seem to take things for granted. When they play a game they expect it to be... perfect the way they want it.

Back in my day, we played pong with a bug where the ball was invisible while we played it while sitting in the snow with no pants on, and we liked it, dag nabbit!

Edited by The Cheese, 10 January 2013 - 01:50 AM.

[Soy]

Khanahar, on 10 January 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

I paid to get into StarCraft 2's beta.

PGI paid me to get into their beta!!!

So.. beat that!!!!

Nya!!!!

[Ilwrath]

Braddack, on 10 January 2013 - 01:43 AM, said:

i dont understand all that Complainers.

Its an nice Game to play, witch every patch the Game becomes more variaty in gameplay. I see much moree different Mechschassis and variants now as before.

People complain because some fundamental game mechanics are broken. Yes they do add stuff but it does not really matter with netcode being broken and matchmaking being unfair.

And some content is more important than other content. New maps (not reskins) are more important than cockpit dingdongs.
Same with game modes.

People does not complain because they hate the game and want it do die by downtalking it on the forum. People want those defects fixed so they can drive mechs and have fun, hopefully with a huge population and faction wars for all the premade players.

People want this to become WoT with mechs backed by a strong lore. People want to throw cash at this game but cannot do that when its broken.

[Lucky Noob]

I guess some content is more simply to make (items, colors) then others (maps, Netcode)

And i recon an increase in FPS and since last Patch i can hit Lights pretty well (Netcode)

So i am at good Hope.

[Valore]

BlightFang, on 10 January 2013 - 01:31 AM, said:

That is quite opinionative. I actually think they are handling the 'beta' issue decently. As far as I can tell, this thread is as much a complaint as any other complaining thread.


I feel like there is some simple logical junction between this and the other quoted statement... But it may be just so simple that its eluding me...

I'm pretty sure alienating players who drop in with no knowledge this is a beta isn't exactly handling the situation well.

If you've seen any of the AdSense ads they have out, there isn't a single word about it being a Beta.

[Apoc1138]

I have 3 IRL friends actually playing the game and we all enjoy it even with it's flaws and like the direction it is headed. I have another 4 friends who haven't even signed up yet precisely because it is still listed as Beta.

IF you thought that this was a launched game then I can understand how you would be upset that it has issues (but then hell, plenty of released games go months with massive problems waiting on patches so...)

I personally don't understand why people get upset enough by a game to write the things they do. I do understand why people get upset when they try to make helpful suggestions or give reasons why the developers might not agree, only to get pages of insults hurled at them.

And lets face it, people ARE aware that it's beta, because any time someone comes on with a complaint, several people will link them to the "known issues" and mention that the game is a beta, only to get shouted down and told that it's not beta because they have a method of exchanging real money for in game tat.

Edited by Apoc1138, 10 January 2013 - 02:01 AM.

[Valore]

Apoc1138, on 10 January 2013 - 01:59 AM, said:

And lets face it, people ARE aware that it's beta, because any time someone comes on with a complaint, several people will link them to the "known issues" and mention that the game is a beta, only to get shouted down and told that it's not beta because they have a method of exchanging real money for in game tat.

Which is an issue in itself that I mentioned. Its a grave of PGI's own digging.

F2P is a relatively new concept, with no accepted definition. Its like asking people to define a vehicle, and having 2 people start a fight over it because one defines a car, and the other says its a lorry.

Once you're taking money from people with a system of 'no takebacks', then you're in a very grey area. Is it any surprise that so many people are upset?