183 replies to this topic

[sarkun]

Tolkien, on 11 January 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

I strongly believe ECM needs to be broken into 3+ different 1.5 ton pieces for all it does. Right now it's a better AMS than AMS is, and that's just 1/3 of its functions.

I'm now actually thinking that it would be better as an upgrade - like DHS/Artemis - and it's weight/cost scaled with the tonnage of the mech. Sorta like - half a ton and a crit for every 10 tons of the chassis.

[Tolkien]

sarkun, on 11 January 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

I'm now actually thinking that it would be better as an upgrade - like DHS/Artemis - and it's weight/cost scaled with the tonnage of the mech. Sorta like - half a ton and a crit for every 10 tons of the chassis.

That could help, though I am not sure by how much. If it went that way the light mechs would still be getting all the benefit for a fraction of the cost whereas the benefit of upgrades like ES and FF scales with the size of the mech when measured by raw tons saved. If split into multiple 1.5 ton pieces then mediums and heavies could carry all 3 while the rugrats would need to choose between doing damage and being the hub of the EWAR system. Right now mechs like the Craven can have it both ways. Role warfare my butt...

[SuperFr0sty]

Adding Referral: This build is a beast...no doubt...150 speed? with ecm? perfect troll..just tried it today...we lost thou..4 vs 1 (me)....can't kill me...

[Orgasmo]

Lagshield + broken hit box + ECM + low target profile + 120 kph speed + no collision = Raven 3L supremacy

You really don't need a guide to play this.

[MGoo]

I completely agree with the OP, also i dont know if it was just me but i read the OP as a sort of 'well if they wont listen to reason, just break the game for as many people as possible and show that the 3L ecm lagsheild is NOT JUST BROKEN BUT INSANE...
I have just come out of a match which i was meant to be recording (forgot to actually start recording oops!) but i told the guys sorry for the troll game etc, and they understood that I wasnt just a *****.

Ok river city, daytime, I run my 3L down to past their spawn in lower city, almost all of them are there in the water, iirc it was 2 awesome, 1 atlas,1 raven,1 centurion and catapult (up in the sniping position.
They were pretty close together, let the **** commence,
I literally ran rings around all of them for the whole match blasting away and knocking the p*ss out of them, to some complaints on the chat of ffs, and how can a raven take that much damage!
My ping was and is always 120-140 (I am UK player) my pc is more than enough to handle this game, never drop below 60 fps(unless bugged)

As i missed the record button all i have is a screen capture....the match was a conquest map...I lost because after i had killed them all i stopped and started to chat to them, and frankly winning was not the point of this exercise.

I personally dont like ravens, i prefer the cicada if i want to go scouting fast, but really, REALLY? a light mech doing this much dmg? I really hope the netcode gets fixed and ecm gets something intelligent done with it.

btw I am a Pick up Game player, this was a random game, the first i played this evening.

Hmm, i cant add a picture, but its was 939 damage

Edited by MGoo, 11 January 2013 - 12:46 PM.

[Athena Pryde]

At what speed does the Raven get its lagshield as you call it? Maybe they should restrict mechs to running slower till they fix the lag problem? I have a really hard time hitting Ravens in my Stalker 3F. The fast mediums like centurions don't seem nearly as hard to hit. I added Streaks but those don't work vs ECM.

@McGoo
You need to use a hosting service like ingur to post your pictures.

[MGoo]

^ cheers for that Athena, will dig out my image shack or something then, was used to being pampered on my other forums by attaching pictures to my posts

as for my mech speed that round, it was 142.7 as I recall, speed tweak and an XL280 engine,
+DHS,ENDO,FF 2 streak launchers and 3 med lasers, more dmg than my usual heavy hittin' ILYA with 3x uac/5

[Tolkien]

MGoo, on 11 January 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

I completely agree with the OP, also i dont know if it was just me but i read the OP as a sort of 'well if they wont listen to reason, just break the game for as many people as possible and show that the 3L ecm lagsheild is NOT JUST BROKEN BUT INSANE...
........

Yes, I hope you picked up on my undertone of disgust and loathing for the fact that this mech works so damn well I have held off for a few weeks but the cat is out of the bag already and new players deserve to have some fun too and know what the state of the meta game is and why. Hopefully we can have a monkey knife fight... or should that be a birdy knife fight in our Cravens

Athena Pryde, on 11 January 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

At what speed does the Raven get its lagshield as you call it? Maybe they should restrict mechs to running slower till they fix the lag problem? I have a really hard time hitting Ravens in my Stalker 3F. The fast mediums like centurions don't seem nearly as hard to hit.

Lag shields start at around 32 kph and go from there Actually no, they can oddly sometimes affect a mech that has shutdown from overheating, so they start from slightly below 0 I guess...

Seriously what's going on is this (as far as I can tell):
1) The server registers the enemy and your position, speed, and direction of travel and tells you about it
2) It takes ~100ms for that information to get to you, so when you see the enemy in a position this is 'guess' your machine has generated based on the data you had last. The enemy may have turned a little and therefore won't be quite where you expect, this is what causes mechs to teleport around at high speeds.
3)When you fire an energy weapon you see it leave the barrel immediately, but it doesn't actually fire until 100ms later when that message "I fired" gets to the server. Therefore you have to compensate for your ping and lead your target, but you also have to compensate for what your opponent will probably do between when you fire and when the message arrives.

This is why you will never hit a fast moving light by aiming at them. Hell you won't even hit them if you properly lead them with an autocannon. What's worse is the paper doll flashes based on whether you hit on your side or the server, so if hit a Craven with an AC20 you will see a part flash then no damage register.

Why do they do this and not just let our computers decide who hit what? Well cheaters would then use aim bots and would be unstoppable, so they have to make the interaction of gun--> bullet --> enemy be decided on the server

To hit a fast moving light it is best to wait until he is moving towards you or away from you since it will minimize the amount of lead you need to apply to hit them.

Edited by Tolkien, 11 January 2013 - 02:29 PM.

[Pando]

I've yet to meet a 3-L that can take down my AS7-D-DC.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1a74202c5d8e62d

[MGoo]

OH!.....i just noticed that the raven 3L also can have 3 advanced modules as well...lets take the **** even more then

[Tolkien]

Pando, on 11 January 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

I've yet to meet a 3-L that can take down my AS7-D-DC.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1a74202c5d8e62d

I thought CASE was still cosmetic? Either way though, if we could see where the enemy kept their ammo I would try to nibble on that rear torso armor to get to the sweet sweet ammo inside. Since we can't though that atlas build has a mean combo of weapons and ECM to keep his streaks online.

[MGoo]

ok...3 games in a row, after the main fight is closing to an end I point out that we are outnumbered but have 1 ecm mech left and will win.....LULZ in chat...and we do...

[Pando]

Tolkien, on 11 January 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

I thought CASE was still cosmetic? Either way though, if we could see where the enemy kept their ammo I would try to nibble on that rear torso armor to get to the sweet sweet ammo inside. Since we can't though that atlas build has a mean combo of weapons and ECM to keep his streaks online.

Well, I'm not sure on CASE being cosmetic...It's my belief it's working. Yes, it's a very mean combination of weapons with the torso twist speed to keep up with lights to boot. The most damage I've been able to do in a game was having my 3 other lance-mates run assault mechs. Totals were 1475'ish I believe with having some (not much) ammo to spare.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Tolkien, you've got it basically right, but the real problem with the lagshield is that it stems from three sources: one location of servers for the entire world, bad netcode, and the prediction code PGI used to 'solve' the netcode issue.

Like the server location, Netcode is what it is. The ping, and how that effects the game. Not so much code but that's what people are calling it so at this point there's no reason to call it what it actually is. You explained that part pretty well.

The other half, is the prediction code. I read about this I believe in the Developer's Corner a few months ago, so I could be totally wrong or partially. Anyways. What this is is code that PGI put in to try to solve the problem of lag, or netcode as it is sometimes reffered to around here. Since PGI can't solve the netcoding so far (the ACTUAL netcoding mind, yes the term is accurate depending on usage) they decided to put in prediction code to solve that - it tracks weapon fire, relative speed of target and shooter, and latency. If this sounds like a auto aim code that's because it is. Prediction code is what auto aim is, puer and simple, and unfortuantely it doesn't solve the latency effect... it just makes it worse.

Now. Two things. A - I'm going off memory here so I could be recalling this wrong. B - I might have read something the wrong way as well. So, grain o' salt, ladies and gents, but until they fix the issue it doesn't really matter what's causing the problems, only that they have yet to solve them and it's really bloody ANNOYING.

Pando, on 11 January 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

I've yet to meet a 3-L that can take down my AS7-D-DC.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1a74202c5d8e62d

Man one light will always have issues in a one on one with an Atlas. Not to say it can't win against you but geez, you're basically braggin' that you're tank has yet to be killed by one enemy with a sticky bomb. Which is to say, I don't think you're point is accurate because I know it CAN be done, and also a little out of touch. Really it comes down to a LOT of variables and mechs are only two of those. Plug some more of those in and I'll be happy to take you're optimism a little more seriously - which is to say, at all seriously.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 11 January 2013 - 05:44 PM.

[Soy]

Whoa whoa whoa man.

You don't want to attach your name to a build that 1) was already well established and quite popular a week after ECM came out, and 2) is extreme cheese.

That being said, it's difficult to see a more noobfriendly power mech. I can sit a friend down with 0 experience in this game and they can still hang (somewhat) in this mech. In the hands of a real player... heh, we all know what happens...

Theres a lot of lil changes you can do to this build to lower the cheese in favor of fun/derpage, but the overall theory of ECM + SPEED + STREAKS + ML + RAVEN = CHEESE is incredibly difficult to truly counter in game if it's a legitimate pilot in there. My only complaint is that I just wish people who piloted this mech a lot would bother tweaking it in favor of something more creative. Throw a LL in there, a PPC, TAG, some LRMs, something!!! You can sacrifice a bit and still find something goofy but effective.

[Budor]

Pando, on 11 January 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

I've yet to meet a 3-L that can take down my AS7-D-DC.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1a74202c5d8e62d

ECM and streaks<ECM and more streaks...who would have guessed oO

[random51]

The assault that builds with Streaks instead of SRMs has an easier time vs. lights but loses vs. other assaults, some heavies. I think people are better off learning how to aim SRMs properly so that they can handle other assaults *and* lights.

Two out of three mechs in my garage before ECM were a raven-3l and an atlas d-dc. ECM just made the best light and the best assault at the time even better.

I prefer the 3 ML build for pubs, 2ML+Tag for 4 or 8 man groups. I find it easier to leg other fast lights with regular lasers than with pulse lasers.

[Ravennus]

Unfortunately this game is practically unplayable for a lot of people outside North America due to the aforementioned lag issues and netcode.

If you are in a Raven and personally solo multiple mechs on your own... check their ping, and yours.
If both are high, and they are inexperienced with lag shooting... unless you screw up piloting or stop for whatever reason, they will not hit you very much. (Though lucky shots still sometimes happen)


HOWEVER.... if you are from North America, and especially from Canada... you don't really have an excuse against lights.
I live in the backwoods of Canada with a ****** country DSL connection, and yet I average about 50-60 ping to the servers.

I hit what I aim at, even against 150kph lights.
So I'm essentially playing the game as it's meant to be played, and unless the other player is a really good pilot, they don't really threaten my Hunchback.

I also started this game PLAYING a 3L (didn't realize I was "exploiting" at the time and didn't come to the forums until later), and I still die a fair bit if I'm stupid because I don't get a lagshield.



Teams also have to not make the same mistake they made even before ECM.... don't be distracted by the light.
The myth on this forum is that the Raven 3L has the firepower to solo a well armored Atlas in half a minute.
As a Raven 3L player, I can tell you that simply isn't true. (unless the are AFK or disconned)

Those couple streaks feel dangerous, but if you torso twist and keep moving the damage actually spreads now and doesn't all go to the centre torso. I usually do just as much, if not more damage with well placed MLAS shots.

Instead of letting them distract you, focus on their friends that are often right behind them and doing the ACTUAL damage.



But again... if you are over seas, you are already at a disadvantage.
If you are in Australia... from what I gather, you are probably fracked and this game just isn't playable.

Now that I understand the problem more, I really feel for you overseas folks. You just can't play the game as it's meant right now, sadly... but it's actually a really fun game! (can't wait for them to add more though)


Let me reiterate though. If you are from North America? And you have an awesome ping to the servers? (press TAB)
Just practice against those lights and don't fear them or let them distract you from their bigger buddies.

Nothing worse than having the two teams push against each other, and 2/3rds of my team start running around in circles trying to shoot a light at their feat like they are on fire.
Screw him. Focus fire on his bigger friends (you aren't boating lock-on weapons are you? Or if you are, you are at a safe distance with TAG?) then teach him a lesson after.

I say this as a light player.
(Though I am REALLY enjoying my Hunchies right now)

Edited by Ravennus, 12 January 2013 - 01:15 AM.

[Tolkien]

Soy, on 11 January 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Whoa whoa whoa man.

You don't want to attach your name to a build that 1) was already well established and quite popular a week after ECM came out....

Yes, well I nicked it in that split second you let your guard down... and I'd do it again... *sip* .... good day.

[Grey Black]

This thread is patently wrong. Everyone knows the COM-2D is more powerful. Same speed, 3rd SSRM launcher, and smaller profile, and 10 tons lighter. Obviously!