65 replies to this topic

[lonewolfsx]

And one last comment on the few troll posters/viewers talking about Jenner being easy mode and all that crap, I proposed long ago that there should be a more strict turning dynamic implemented based on speed preventing circle strafing and other classic light mech maneuvers from being so easy and overpowering. Go reinstall mechwarrior 2 or 3, and load up a fast light mech and try to circle strafe an assault mech... it's far more difficult than in this game. Maybe not to that extreme, but a little fine tuning of the engine mechanics would do wonders and make scouts fill that role, and strikers still be viable for hit-and-run tactics which they are suited for according to the *gasp* lore. Read about the Jenner... it's all about running up, firing, and running away. This circle strafe thing is a first-person shooter type thing they left in to try to make it more action oriented. I'd much prefer the simulator system.

Edited by lonewolfsx, 10 January 2013 - 09:18 AM.

[Screech]

Welcome back. I think the most important part has been over looked. Did you take the time to purchase a few bobble-heads. Or perhaps a couple custom paint jobs and hero mechs. I know these will be new to you and honestly way more important then new maps or net-code improvements.

Also you forgot to mention how jump jets kinda stink now.

[Jetfire]

It may have been 3 months, but I am pretty sure that the major Dec patch was the first big push. It had to have taken a while to get new talent on board after the founder program ended and they should just about be all trained in and working. The coming months should see a larger improvement per month.

ECM is primarily an issue as its various counters are not yet in game. You can certainly use TAG right now or a buddy with ECM, but an EMP effect is coming for PPC's that knock out ECM for a while, as are new pilot skills that should partially or totally cut through ecm in certain instances. A lot of people want BAP and NARC to be the counters, but things are coming already and if everything in the game counters ECM, no one will use it.

I think it is safe to say if you want to see some really big changes, come back in April and you are unlikely to be disappointed. If things aren't much further along at that point I think even the best of us may be out of patience.

[Beo Vulf]

This has all ready been covered to many times to count. Suggestions have been made to the Devs on possible fixes. If you notice the varients that are ECM capable, they were the least desirable varients that did not get a lot of play by anyone. ECM made them playable. ECM is capable of doing things that it should not. There by rendering BAP, TAG, and NARC almost useless.

[Grimlox]

The range on ECM cover of friendlies is only 180m it does nothing to assist friendly mechs outside of that range.

[MustrumRidcully]

You may have picked a bad time, after all, about one month was probably holiday induced with lower productivity. Though if I was in your position, I'd have expected more, too. Try again in 3 months perhaps?

[OGFAMINE]

Grimlox, on 10 January 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

The range on ECM cover of friendlies is only 180m it does nothing to assist friendly mechs outside of that range.

I read yesterday that if an ECM equipped mech is between you and the missile boat shooting at you - the lock is lost when the missiles fly over the area covered by the ECM suite even if the ally is far behind it and not within the 180m.

Edited by OGFAMINE, 10 January 2013 - 10:01 AM.

[Karl Split]

OHAI welcome back to mwo.

ECM is the new cool didnt you get the memo? Ohh you were away, right...

Either pilot an ECM mech or die to an ECM mech, its the new thing!

If ECM isnt your thing then tough! The devs pointedly dont answer questions about ECM in their Q&A's so it must be fine.

/end #sarcasm#

[Jman5]

Quote

1- I didn't realize ECM also shielded other friendly mechs, whichever one is closest to you across the entire map in radar range. So that means if there are two enemy mechs left, and one has ECM, they both reap the benefits even if they are 1000m apart. That's pretty stupid. It should only apply to the mech it is equipped on. How could an electronics suite boost the stealth abilites of a friendly mech across distances without itself generating a signal detectable by enemy radar? derp!

No, that's not how it works. ECM creates a small 180m bubble around it that prevents enemies from using lock on missile weapons against anything within that bubble.

If an enemy gets within 200 meters, they can target the ECM mech/s, but cannot use lock on missiles.

However, ECM mechs can "decloak" so to speak, and go to Disrupt mode if they want to cancel out one enemy ECM equipped mech. If you disrupt ECM allies can use lock-on missiles and attack the ECM equipped mech and all those who were hiding under its umbrella.

TAG is also something that can disrupt ECM and it got a massive range buff recently to 750 meters. It's a popular choice if you are playing with people that have LRMs.

Forgive me, but from what I've read, it sounds like you just don't want to adapt to the new environment. You had your jenner/SSRM loadout and now that its effectiveness has been reduced (rightly so) you want the game rebalanced around your playstyle. ECM is nice, but absolutely useless versus every weapon type except two. Perhaps you should try using some direct fire weapons instead.

Edited by Jman5, 10 January 2013 - 10:09 AM.

[Kaboodle]

Honestly, ECM itself isn't that bad, as long as both sides have equal amounts of it. It means you can't run LRM or SSRM only builds (EZMOADLOCKON) and expect to be effective. This is ok. At the very least you need to TAG, also, SSRMs "do" work on ECM mechs, between 180m and 270m. IF you need the crutch of SSRMs to kill people, learn to use them at the ranges they work at. Otherwise, consider different targets with your Jenner. Maybe run SRM4s instead of SSRM2s, They're highly effective for the same weight(ish) and still only 1 slot. If you can aim, the SRM4 build should in fact make you MORE deadly. Good luck.

And for disclaimer, I run almost exclusively a 4xPPC 2xSRM4 Stalker, and kill plenty of ECM mechs with 40 damage strikes to various parts of their body.

Edited by Kaboodle, 10 January 2013 - 10:09 AM.

[Sir Wulfrick]

Whilst I agree with the majority of the OP's proposals...

lonewolfsx, on 10 January 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

<snip>
a new gametype which basically doesn't work and is the same deathmatch style as before...
<SNIP>

Citation needed. In my experience conquest is a far more tactical game than assault as it necessitates tactics beyond a mindless charge at the enemy. OK, drastic simplification but it does require more in respect of tactics. Describing it as not working is... Interesting. Please explain...

[Serapth]

Kaboodle, on 10 January 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

Honestly, ECM itself isn't that bad, as long as both sides have equal amounts of it. It means you can't run LRM or SSRM only builds (EZMOADLOCKON) and expect to be effective. This is ok. At the very least you need to TAG, also, SSRMs "do" work on ECM mechs, between 180m and 270m. IF you need the crutch of SSRMs to kill people, learn to use them at the ranges they work at. Otherwise, consider different targets with your Jenner. Maybe run SRM4s instead of SSRM2s, They're highly effective for the same weight(ish) and still only 1 slot. If you can aim, the SRM4 build should in fact make you MORE deadly. Good luck.

And for disclaimer, I run almost exclusively a 4xPPC 2xSRM4 Stalker, and kill plenty of ECM mechs with 40 damage strikes to various parts of their body.

Translation: ECM is fine because it doesnt effect me.



One thing I saw earlier in the thread gave me a very simple idea of how to "balance" ECM. While ECM is engaged, it generates heat equivalent to 50% of total. Otherwise leave it exactly as it is. As a result, running ECM has a drastic downside and becomes more strategic in use.

[rgreat]

Sir Wulfrick, on 10 January 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

Whilst I agree with the majority of the OP's proposals...



Citation needed. In my experience conquest is a far more tactical game than assault as it necessitates tactics beyond a mindless charge at the enemy. OK, drastic simplification but it does require more in respect of tactics. Describing it as not working is... Interesting. Please explain...

I bet he just fails at conquest.

Edited by rgreat, 10 January 2013 - 10:18 AM.

[OGFAMINE]

Kaboodle, on 10 January 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

Honestly, ECM itself isn't that bad, as long as both sides have equal amounts of it. It means you can't run LRM or SSRM only builds (EZMOADLOCKON) and expect to be effective. This is ok. At the very least you need to TAG, also, SSRMs "do" work on ECM mechs, between 180m and 270m. IF you need the crutch of SSRMs to kill people, learn to use them at the ranges they work at. Otherwise, consider different targets with your Jenner. Maybe run SRM4s instead of SSRM2s, They're highly effective for the same weight(ish) and still only 1 slot. If you can aim, the SRM4 build should in fact make you MORE deadly. Good luck.

And for disclaimer, I run almost exclusively a 4xPPC 2xSRM4 Stalker, and kill plenty of ECM mechs with 40 damage strikes to various parts of their body.

ECM is ok if everyone has it ? This point seems to support arguments that detract from the current implementation of ECM. Not sure if you thought that one through...

SSRM's work on ECM equipped mech's between 180 and 270m ? Yeah, they work, if they ECM mech turns off disruption mode or you have an ECM mech that counters their ECM. Otherwise you cannot lock them at all...so you can't shoot your missiles. While I agree that SSRM2's were not working well (read overpowered) now they only work effectively for mechs with ECM. This is silly.

[Sug]

ECM would be fine if Raven's weren't lag-shielded with f'd up hitboxes.

Probably 1 out of 4 pug matches for me has ended in a loss because the last enemy ECM Raven takes out the last 3 members of my team solo. God help us if there's more than one.

Used to be team with the most Atlases wins now it's the most Ravens.

[PANZERBUNNY]

OGFAMINE, on 10 January 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

I read yesterday that if an ECM equipped mech is between you and the missile boat shooting at you - the lock is lost when the missiles fly over the area covered by the ECM suite even if the ally is far behind it and not within the 180m.

It should work something like that.

It should make the missiles fairly inaccurate, but making it lose lock shouldn't occur.

[r4plez]

TLDR:

MWO is garbage (lagshield, stupid mm, fps drops etc, only 4 maps, 1 gamemode, wepon ballance) gonna take a break from it for a while

3 months later

MWO is still a garbage with game breaking ECM, gonna take a break from it for while

repeat

Edited by r4plez, 10 January 2013 - 11:15 AM.

[Kaboodle]

OGFAMINE, on 10 January 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

ECM is ok if everyone has it ? This point seems to support arguments that detract from the current implementation of ECM. Not sure if you thought that one through...

Not if everyone has it, if both teams have equal amounts. Assuming pug matchmaking you can't choose your team layout, the matchmaker does. If both teams have 3 ECM equipped mechs, it's still quite an even match usually, assuming no one does the usual dumb suicide charge, or disconnects/crashes. If the matchmaker took ECM into account, and made even mechs-per-side with it (In PUG games) problems with ECM being a main rout mechanic would be nil.

It's dumb that a large amount of games right now are won/lost based on one team having MORE ECM than the other. (Since if you have more you can counter your enemy's ECM, while still cloaking your own team.)


Also, ECM does still effect me greatly, as this team-based game requires my team to be able to win, just because it doesn't effect my PERSONAL Mech much, doesn't mean it has no effect on me.

And yes, even in disrupt mode, you can lock-on between 180-270m with SSRMs, assuming someone is tagging him. Without TAG, between 180 and 200m, you CAN lock on with your SSRMs, or even LRMs. This is only useful if said ECM mech isn't paying attention to you, or is an atlas and you can control the battle by being a faster mech (IE Jenner)

[Windies]

Kaboodle, on 10 January 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

Not if everyone has it, if both teams have equal amounts.

so if 8 people have it on one team, everyone on the other team needs it. So basically if everyone has it....

[Buck Cake]

They made a string of bad decisions, and now they are enjoying the fruits of their effort. As much as a toadstool can be called a fruit. The game was and still is salvageable, but in order to salvage it the devs would need to completely change their outlook.