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[Pov] Am I Playing The Game? Or Am I Just Using The Mechanics?


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#1 Sidekick

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:57 AM

Allright, this is going to be a rather complicated post.

I am realizing that my interest in MWO is dropping.... and no, this is not a "buh bye, off to WORLDOFHAWKSIDE 2 3/4..." post. My interest in MWO is dropping because I realized that it is not a game yet, and I am beginning to wonder if it will ever be a game.

This may seem strange. MWO is not a game? But We are running along with our stompy mechs, shooting and stuff.

And yes, we are in our big stompy mechs. We enjoy the possibilities of configuration, the different methods of loadouts and the variety of stuff on the field.

But we are not playing a game. If you compare this to a classic tabletop, it´s easy to explain what is the difference between a game and a mechanic.

Right now.... we log on and roll dice. Our loadouts determine what these dice do and what this does to other peoples dice/mechs, but essentialy we are just using a game mechanic. And while it´s all cute and nice to run around and shoot stuff, it doesn´t offer much long-term motivation.

Allow me to elaborate this further. And to do this, let´s get back to the very roots of the multiplayer shooter hype that is still of importance today.

Counter Strike.
I am talking abaut CS here because MOST people have played it and understand what I´m talking abaut here.

CS showed in the early days of the multiplayer hype how hard it is do design a good game and what core assets it should contain. CS featured the core mechanics of a shooter. Weapons featured different ranges, damages, special abilities and ammunitions, There were no "superior" weapons per se, just different weapons... this also applies to MWO, where most of the weapons are useful. You could wear armor, add helmets, use special assets (grenades, shields) and other stuff in battle.
<p>But the battle wasn´t the game, it was just a mechanic that helped to resolve the game. I highly doubt that CS would have been such a long-term success if it wasn´t for these really smart designed game elements.

One of these elements was the concept of offensive and defensive teams in scenarios. Plant the bomb, save the hostage, kill the VIP. Sounds simple, but there is a lot more to it that you initially think. Sure, the scenarios could be won by killing the enemies...but there were twists.

For example: the time limit. When the time ran out, it wasn´t a draw... the time forced the offensive team to act. Whenever the terrorists had to plant a bomb of the CT had to save the hostages, TIME was an issue that dictated the action. Sure, time is also an issue at MWO´s Conquest, but I rarely see one team win by points+time, since the method of direct conflict is much easier.

An other example what made the game Counterstrike so good was the aspect of objectives. The hostage rescue, for example featured moving objectives. So you actually have to look for them, meaning that scouting and reconaissance had a meaning. The other smart move the creators of CS includes was the aspect of exclusivity. At CS, only one had the bomb, meaning that only he could archieve the objective. If he dropped it, the game evolved into picking up the bomb/defending it. if it was planted, the game enterd the next stage, effectively changing the offensive and defensive roles around, forcing the CT to attack and the T to defend an objective.
Another good implemantion of the aspect of exclusivity was the assasination game mode, where one team had to defend one specific teammate. But not only that, they had to move him from A to B, forcing them into an offensive role while having to defend a moving objective.

These were all really smart game elements. They finally gave the players something to use the mechanics on, forcing them to rethink the way they are using the mechanics and offering many opportunities for in-game evolution, often even in-battle evolution of the game at hand.

(CS ends here)

This is why I am disappointed with MWO at this moment. There is no game, we are just using the mechanics in a very simple way.
Shoot to do damage
Cool down to avoid heat
Recieve damage and be immobilized, crippled or destroyed
Step into cap zone to trigger cap

And yes: Capping is a mechanic, not a game. Conquest can be considered as a first attempt to create a game, but I think it failed at several aspects. Assault is no game at all, it´s a loose method of team deathmatch with a bailout possibility.

The problem: both modes have the same winning method and feature no scenario to follow. In both modes, it is the most efficient way to stack up and stay defensive, joining the teams ECM and AMS into an impenetrable wall. Luring the enemies to split up that your blob can shred them one by one. Or, in other words: you win by not playing a game at all and try to use the mechanics as best as you could. It offers little to no strategy and almost no in-battle evolution.

Development over time is another thing...
We log on, we shoot, we see our stats, we leave the game.
There is no possibility to evolve, to grow. It would be way more interesting if the game would give us the chance to restart a game, switching mechs after a round while staying in game, switching teams, etc.... Then, the player wouldn´t be so detatched from the game like he is now.

For example: Someone is using a cheesy build, totally ruling one round. But you get no chance to rethink that situation, learn how to counter this player and this playstyle, making it easier for him to dwell in the cheese and harder for everyone else to cope with the situation.

We know this from most shooters: Enemies got a lot of snipers, better use smoke grenades. Enemies are shotgunning rushers, better use heavy weapons and stay defensive. If you change your method to match the enemies, they will most likely change, too. Then, we have In-game evolution. The game offers the opportunity to choose a method by learning from other methods. This, however is greatly irrelevant at the moment at MWO. There IS just one mechanic, and this is "high DPS". This is giving heavy and assault mechs advantages and invites players to use one-dimensional builds like SRM-Cats and SRM-Stalkers. You face them, they grind you to dust, next game they might or might not be there.


This goes for cheats and exploits too. If someone has a lucky round, shredding enemies cockpits with AC/Gauss shots he might be a a cheater.... or just lucky. Cheaters an exploiters are easy to determine, because the cheat works all the time. Luck is random, you have it or you don´t. But because our rounds are just one-shot situations, there is no difference between cheaters and luckers.... which is protecting the cheaters.


In the sum of things, I am getting the Impression that MWO never had a game within at the first place. All the maps, all the content.... it´s just beefing up the mechanics more and more. So we´ll just keep on stomping. Some are bored and leave, but I am realizing that MWO has nothing to "hook" players with. There is no narrative objective like in Planetside, that gives the players the idea of participating in a bigger thing, there is no scenaio that forces people to act and think outside of the very narrow box of game mechanics....
So yes. My problem is: MWO is lacking a game in the first place.

Edited by Sidekick, 10 January 2013 - 04:05 AM.


#2 Armorpiercer M82

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:10 AM

please remove tags..

#3 Sidekick

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:17 AM

Allready did. My post wasn´t accepted the first time, so I had to repost it from the "your post was saved" tile. Found some typos, too

#4 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:18 AM

You are testing the mechanics. Are you battling to gain (and keep) resources? Is the Planet you are fighting for even in your sector of space? Do you even know where your sector of space is?

You are testing the game, not playing yet.

#5 Kain

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:30 AM

TL;DR; version?

and i do not agree,, a game consists of game mechanics, just like Counterstrike..
CS:GO have now 4(?) game modes and MW:O has 2 at the the moment, and more will come.

also comparing a respawn-1minute-quick-game with MW:O is also a bad comparison.
Counterstrike is also an easier design, than MW:O (no teamroles, weight/heat/ecm/tag/long range missile attacks etc.)
and CS is just run, shoot, plant bomb/diffuse bomb..and that for 30 rounds


but I think i understand what you mean:
MW:O needs more game modes/fix balance issues/ nerf ecm etc.?..

(I like CS a lot by the way)

Edited by Kain, 10 January 2013 - 04:33 AM.


#6 Even Dark

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:32 AM

the title mechwarrior have so many potential

1st time i playing these titel i thougt wow great graphics and sound but after some matches i must say its a pew pew shooter with one tactic stay togehter and focus fire and hope there is not too much ecm in the game or you lose complete the overview over the battlefield.


but it is a beta and i hope with coming months there will be come some good patches.

mw have a good story a great backround to do more then this we have.

Edited by Even Dark, 10 January 2013 - 04:35 AM.


#7 Apoc1138

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:34 AM

I can certainly see where you are coming from... the counter point to this is that the game is nowhere near "done"... I can also understand that if you have been playing the game as currently deployed for quite some time that you would be getting bored of it... taking a break while you wait for new content is both fair and expected by the developers :D

#8 twibs

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:07 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 10 January 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

You are testing the game, not playing yet.


Testing, testing. That's the single most used excuse I've been hearing here. At some point it'll run out of steam and they'll have to start pleasing the crowd.

#9 Sidekick

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:16 AM

twibs has almost understood what I was attempting to talk abaut:
We are testing mechanics, but not a game. We can tweak the mechanics all we want, but we need to have a game in the first place. MWO is all abaut game mechanics and balancing these mechanics to eachother.

Perhaps my point of view is easier to get If I tell that I´m more the board /tabletop gaming type. I can distingush a mechanic from a game, and this is the source for my problem. Right now, I can´t even guess which way the game of MWO is supposed to be played. Are we running objective based missions, (like in the UnrealTournament game mode "Assault"), are we running ressource based conflicts like in the "Battlefield" game franchise, are we running basic scenarios like in CS? I don´t get it, what are we going to do? No that ecomomics is all out of the window, I don´t get what this game is abaut at all.

#10 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:20 AM

View Posttwibs, on 10 January 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:


Testing, testing. That's the single most used excuse I've been hearing here. At some point it'll run out of steam and they'll have to start pleasing the crowd.

Until such a time as I see missions, opposing teams from one faction, Clanners I am not playing the game. I am honing my skills and testing the system. The game is primarily going to be the inner Sphere's battle v the Clans. Are the Clans on the pointy end of my PPC yet?

#11 Sidekick

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:35 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 10 January 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

Until such a time as I see missions, opposing teams from one faction, Clanners I am not playing the game. I am honing my skills and testing the system. The game is primarily going to be the inner Sphere's battle v the Clans. Are the Clans on the pointy end of my PPC yet?


Ok. So there are supposed to be clans stomping around in 2 months (March 3050)... but adding more colour to the game doesn´t mean that the game itself gets better.

#12 Nightfangs

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:37 AM

Right now, we are basically playing team deathmatches.
I would call that the bare core mechanics.
A small step forward would be a good matchmaking or a game lobby and the ability to choose your opponent team.

We will have a real game when they add another layer above that; the role warfare - conquering or defending planets, conducting raids, managing the ressources of your mercenary unit, joining a faction and earning a reputation, taking part in a larger galactic war.

You can't compare the two states of development.

#13 Onmyoudo

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:40 AM

What you want is Community Warfare. Well, hopefully it'll be along soon.

#14 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:45 AM

View PostSidekick, on 10 January 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

Ok. So there are supposed to be clans stomping around in 2 months (March 3050)... but adding more colour to the game doesn´t mean that the game itself gets better.
True. But that still point at the game is not complete. Releasing the Clans in two months as I see the game so far, would be a mistake. there is still time for that to turn around, but i don't think its enough time. We are still working on a game that is 1/3-1/2 finished. I will hold my opinion of it till it releases or flops.

#15 SpaceODC

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:57 AM

View Posttwibs, on 10 January 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:


Testing, testing. That's the single most used excuse I've been hearing here. At some point it'll run out of steam and they'll have to start pleasing the crowd.


Well, that may sound dumb, but any game HAS to be tested before it is finished. And the devs learned that they could just as well ask us to do the testing stuff, while they work on it

What they do,called internal testing, is really testing the mechanics, is that particule effect showing up, does the target system work etc. etc.

but about the in-game evolution you are right, if I take as an example other strategy games like starcraft 2 or League of Legends, you see that they evolve as the match goes on : In Starcraft you unlock technologies which lets you use new tactics right on the battlefield. In LoL there is an item shop that let's you buy powerful items with special effects with gold earned ingame, additionally there is a ingame level up system.

This FPS will need something likely, but adapted to the context.

Like in Starcraft, there could be sightwards / radars you will have to stand next to to increase map awareness

or fighting against neutral fixed defense systems in order to unlock new paths on the map to flank the enemy team or like a sniper position

or activating a special crystal with weapons, healing mechs that stand close to it

it would be cool to have some strategic points in the game, it's also important that the lights don't do all the job, they can be good for the radars, and the big ones are good at clearing paths

Another cool feature would be damaging environments like lava rivers, meteorites showers, acid gases, etc.

I hope it's not too late ...

#16 V1nt3r

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:11 AM

View PostSidekick, on 10 January 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

all that long text he wrote


+1 for You mate. Closest game to MWO is world of tanks, try to play it and see the diffirence. Its not about that there is second world war and here u got mechs and future. MWO is just not player friendly, its just annoying ! Intreface isnt player friendly, matchmaking sucks, only 1 server so half of ppl got 150+ ping, no reconnect option i could just write bugs over bugs and missing things here. Yes its BETA, but until it will be a full scaled game it will need not a month or half a year, but at least 2 YEARS OF PATCHING AND FIXING. So i am sorry but if developers wont start doing right things then u wont see me nor my money nor my support here.

#17 Sayyid

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:11 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 10 January 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

You are testing the mechanics. Are you battling to gain (and keep) resources? Is the Planet you are fighting for even in your sector of space? Do you even know where your sector of space is?

You are testing the game, not playing yet.



The problem is there has been no mention on when or IF those mechanics will ever make it in game. I would love to see the mechanics like the MW4 succession wars server, or the old MPBT:3025 EA servers. But at the current rate of development, and I have been around MMOs long enough to know, I doubt this game will ever see that level of gameplay.

In otherwords in my 20 years of online gaming and beta testing, I doubt MWO by PGI will ever be much more than what we have now. The development is steady but not fast enough to get to any of the goals they have set before the game runs out of funding.

#18 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:16 AM

That would be disappointing Sayyid! :D

#19 V1nt3r

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:30 AM

I think that developers should read this topic and open their eyes

#20 BerryChunks

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:35 AM

When they intro universal warfare and border disputes like Chromehounds created, where you can fight for sides.

When they have a map pool of 100's unique places to fight, and game impacting goals.

Then it will be more.





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