183 replies to this topic

[Leimrey]

I feel sorry for everyone who is going to pilot the spider on release. People are already preparing their ECM ravens for the inevitable spider farming.
The carnage, it will be glorious and sad at the same time.

Edited by Leimrey, 14 January 2013 - 10:48 AM.

[Odins Fist]

Jacmac, on 11 January 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

"Is The Spider Doa?"

.
ANSWER: Yuuuuup..!!!

[Vassago Rain]

Leimrey, on 14 January 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

I feel sorry for everyone who is going to pilot the spider on release. People are already preparing their ECM ravens for the inevitable spider farming.
The carnage, it will be glorious and sad at the same time.

Spiderfest 2013, 23 hours off.

[Serapth]

Leimrey, on 14 January 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

I feel sorry for everyone who is going to pilot the spider on release. People are already preparing their ECM ravens for the inevitable spider farming.
The carnage, it will be glorious and sad at the same time.

I think I will play both sides of this equation. Ill pick up a Spider because im bored with the mechs in this game. Then I will switch to my 3l to make up for my horrible deaths suffered in the Spider.

Either way, it should be kinda interesting.


The Spider was a stupid mech to choose next, I agree with that. At this point in time the game certainly doesnt need another fast light mech, especially when 2 ( really 1 ) Mech is perfectly built for stomping it. The Spider has no upsides, thats bizarre.

[Helbourne]

But if your stuck on a planet and all there is available is Spiders what are you going to use, nothing?

Oh wait I am sorry, people want the zero sum everything is equal, FPS reskinned CoD game, I keep forgetting that. In real warfare not everything is equal folks. If all you have available are a bunch of 'useless' mechs you have to make due, fight smarter!

[Leimrey]

Vassago Rain, on 14 January 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

23 hours off.

Thanks, now I won't miss it for sure. On another note, the only way the spider might become useful is if PGI fixes the netcode, removes the speedcap and gives the spider exceptional jump jetting ability. Yes, this sounds strange, but think about it: if the netcode is fixed, the life expectancy of any light mech will be equal to the amount of time it needs to be spotted by a laser boating mech or a decent shot in general. Streaks will no longer be the prime light swatting weapons as lasers will take their place and their ability to carry ECM will no longer be overpowered. However, with its exceptional jump jetting capability and speed, the spider will have the highest survivability of any light mech, making it at least semi viable.

Also, another way to make the spider at least somewhat useful is to un-nerf the AC/2 and return its rate of fire to the 2 shots per second it had before the nerf. This way the spider with 2 ballistic hardpoints will be able to carry 2 AC2s with a respectable amount of ammo.

Consider the following: the spider's standard structure frame weighs 3 tons. Using the Endo Steel Upgrade reduces the frame weight to 1.5 tons. 2 AC2s weigh 12 tons, bringing the current weight to 13.5 tons. A XL200 engine weighs 7.5 tons and needs 2 additional heatsinks to operate, bringing the total weight of the mech to 23 and allowing it to go at a respectable speed of somewhat over 100kph with speedtweak. The remaining 7 tons can be used to load up on ammo (75 rounds per ton) and armor, making it a pretty fun jiggler/plinker build with respectable burst DPS (pre nerf AC/2 had a DPS of 4, which is 0.25 points higher than that of a gauss). Too bad this build will be useless with the current AC/2 stats.

Edited by Leimrey, 14 January 2013 - 11:16 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Leimrey, on 14 January 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

Thanks, now I won't miss it for sure. On another note, the only way the spider might become useful is if PGI fixes the netcode, removes the speedcap and gives the spider exceptional jump jetting ability. Yes, this sounds strange, but think about it: if the netcode is fixed, the life expectancy of any light mech will be equal to the amount of time it needs to be spotted by a laser boating mech or a decent shot in general. Streaks will no longer be the prime light swatting weapons as lasers will take their place and their ability to carry ECM will no longer be overpowered. However, with its exceptional jump jetting capability and speed, the spider will have the highest survivability of any light mech, making it at least semi viable.

Also, another way to make the spider at least somewhat useful is to un-nerf the AC/2 and return its rate of fire to the 2 shots per second it had before the nerf. This way the spider with 2 ballistic hardpoints will be able to carry 2 AC2s with a respectable amount of ammo.

Consider the following: the spider's standard structure frame weighs 3 tons. Using the Endo Steel Upgrade reduces the frame weight to 1.5 tons. 2 AC2s weigh 12 tons, bringing the current weight to 13.5 tons. A XL200 engine weighs 7.5 tons and needs 2 additional heatsinks to operate, bringing the total weight of the mech to 23 and allowing it to go at a respectable speed of somewhat over 100kph with speedtweak. The remaining 7 tons can be used to load up on ammo (75 rounds per ton) and armor, making it a pretty fun jiggler/plinker build with respectable burst DPS (pre nerf AC/2 had a DPS of 4, which is 0.25 points higher than that of a gauss). Too bad this build will be useless with the current AC/2 stats.

This is a very good post, and I hope the rest of the forumgoers reads it.

[Serapth]

Helbourne, on 14 January 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

But if your stuck on a planet and all there is available is Spiders what are you going to use, nothing?

Oh wait I am sorry, people want the zero sum everything is equal, FPS reskinned CoD game, I keep forgetting that. In real warfare not everything is equal folks. If all you have available are a bunch of 'useless' mechs you have to make due, fight smarter!

Let's take an example like COD or Team Fortress and look at roles. Less say you have the medic, the scout, the sniper, the soldier and the farmer. The farmer can't do anything nearly as well as any other role, adds nothing to his team, and is beaten in everyway by other classes. Nobody would play the farmer. Would you question the sanity of the developers for putting the farmer in, when they had hundreds of other options to go with... options that would actually be viable.

In MWO, the Spider is a farmer. There are literally hundreds of Mechs to choose from, and they went with the Spider... a mech which has two advantages, both of which are heavily broken in this game ( speed, jj ), by a combination of bad code and microscopic sized maps.

[Even Dark]

i hope many guys buy and play them..

need money, so i use when its new in the game my com2d or raven3L XDXDXD

[AC]

I think everyone is thinking of the spider with twin ML in the CT. There were a number of other variants. Some had MG's and if PGI would ever fix the MG damage issue (How hard is it to change a number in the code???) then that variant could be a lot of fun.

Serapth, on 14 January 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

Let's take an example like COD or Team Fortress and look at roles. Less say you have the medic, the scout, the sniper, the soldier and the farmer. The farmer can't do anything nearly as well as any other role, adds nothing to his team, and is beaten in everyway by other classes. Nobody would play the farmer. Would you question the sanity of the developers for putting the farmer in, when they had hundreds of other options to go with... options that would actually be viable.

In MWO, the Spider is a farmer. There are literally hundreds of Mechs to choose from, and they went with the Spider... a mech which has two advantages, both of which are heavily broken in this game ( speed, jj ), by a combination of bad code and microscopic sized maps.

I tend to agree that something like the Panther would have been more enjoyable to play.

[Liberty]

The Spider is DOA if they stick to canon. However, it may be resurrected if they fix jump jets to fast flying speeds, quick acceleration, and fast turns in mid air. Currently, hover Spider is just going to be target practice in addition to being a tasty meal for Streak equipped Ravens and Commandos. Heck, even Streak equipped Jenners. The mech should also be given better hardpoints and ECM could improve the Spider's survivability if put on at least one version of the Spider. Alas, I don't believe Spiders will have either better hardpoints or ECM when released from the gates. With borked machine guns and energy weapons restricted to Center Torso it will fare badly compared to other lights. If you think otherwise then max out the Jenner on engine and add jump jets with only two medium lasers and see how it fares. The mech is toast till they fix jump jets, flamers, and machine guns. Those fixes are mandatory to be included with better hardpoints to allow the Spider to survive. It is a shame as it is a beautiful looking mech that I'd hate to see on the trash heap.

[Vassago Rain]

AC, on 14 January 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

I think everyone is thinking of the spider with twin ML in the CT. There were a number of other variants. Some had MG's and if PGI would ever fix the MG damage issue (How hard is it to change a number in the code???) then that variant could be a lot of fun.





I tend to agree that something like the Panther would have been more enjoyable to play.

We're getting the flamer, laser, and machingun variant, the twin medium laser variant, and the twin machinegun variant.

[Stoicblitzer]

it's probably been said already but...if it doesn't have ecm, then the spider is already obsolete.

[Vassago Rain]

Stoicblitzer, on 14 January 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

it's probably been said already but...if it doesn't have ecm, then the spider is already obsolete.

I'm more worried about it having no firepower.

[Helbourne]

Serapth, on 14 January 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

Let's take an example like COD or Team Fortress and look at roles. Less say you have the medic, the scout, the sniper, the soldier and the farmer. The farmer can't do anything nearly as well as any other role, adds nothing to his team, and is beaten in everyway by other classes. Nobody would play the farmer. Would you question the sanity of the developers for putting the farmer in, when they had hundreds of other options to go with... options that would actually be viable.

In MWO, the Spider is a farmer. There are literally hundreds of Mechs to choose from, and they went with the Spider... a mech which has two advantages, both of which are heavily broken in this game ( speed, jj ), by a combination of bad code and microscopic sized maps.

LOL the farmer, now that is a good one.

Now if your stuck on a strange planet with no ammo, and you ran out of med packs, it would be best to find that 'useless' farmer. I bet he would know the land. Plus the farmer has pitch forks.

[hammerreborn]

Leimrey, on 14 January 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

Thanks, now I won't miss it for sure. On another note, the only way the spider might become useful is if PGI fixes the netcode, removes the speedcap and gives the spider exceptional jump jetting ability. Yes, this sounds strange, but think about it: if the netcode is fixed, the life expectancy of any light mech will be equal to the amount of time it needs to be spotted by a laser boating mech or a decent shot in general. Streaks will no longer be the prime light swatting weapons as lasers will take their place and their ability to carry ECM will no longer be overpowered. However, with its exceptional jump jetting capability and speed, the spider will have the highest survivability of any light mech, making it at least semi viable.

Also, another way to make the spider at least somewhat useful is to un-nerf the AC/2 and return its rate of fire to the 2 shots per second it had before the nerf. This way the spider with 2 ballistic hardpoints will be able to carry 2 AC2s with a respectable amount of ammo.

Consider the following: the spider's standard structure frame weighs 3 tons. Using the Endo Steel Upgrade reduces the frame weight to 1.5 tons. 2 AC2s weigh 12 tons, bringing the current weight to 13.5 tons. A XL200 engine weighs 7.5 tons and needs 2 additional heatsinks to operate, bringing the total weight of the mech to 23 and allowing it to go at a respectable speed of somewhat over 100kph with speedtweak. The remaining 7 tons can be used to load up on ammo (75 rounds per ton) and armor, making it a pretty fun jiggler/plinker build with respectable burst DPS (pre nerf AC/2 had a DPS of 4, which is 0.25 points higher than that of a gauss). Too bad this build will be useless with the current AC/2 stats.

An XL 200 would make that thing go terribly slow though. If you're going for speed is the lifeblood then you'll probably have to drop an AC2 and go up to 300 at the minimum.

[Sayyid]

Helbourne, on 14 January 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

But if your stuck on a planet and all there is available is Spiders what are you going to use, nothing?

Oh wait I am sorry, people want the zero sum everything is equal, FPS reskinned CoD game, I keep forgetting that. In real warfare not everything is equal folks. If all you have available are a bunch of 'useless' mechs you have to make due, fight smarter!

The problem is there is no planets, or factional warfare, or supply or anything near that. If it were we would have less twitch COD/BF kids playing and more dedicated MW/Battletech players.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Vassago Rain, on 14 January 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

They won't be getting ECM, and if they do, I can just go back in my atlas and shoot you dead with normal guns.

I got the ravens raised and ground out for the spiderfest 2013. It's just a silly, little thing to waste excess money.

if the known variants are the ones we're getting itll be the 5k, 5D and the 5V.
Two anti infantry specialized variants and the primary variant
so, no. No ECM

Vassago Rain, on 14 January 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

We're getting the flamer, laser, and machingun variant, the twin medium laser variant, and the twin machinegun variant.

yup, the anti infantry variants

ill let that sink in for a while

Helbourne, on 14 January 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

LOL the farmer, now that is a good one.

Now if your stuck on a strange planet with no ammo, and you ran out of med packs, it would be best to find that 'useless' farmer. I bet he would know the land. Plus the farmer has pitch forks.

right and everyone else has raven 3ls. your pitch forks better be fusion based

[hammerreborn]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 14 January 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

if the known variants are the ones we're getting itll be the 5k, 5D and the 5V.
Two anti infantry specialized variants and the primary variant
so, no. No ECM

Neither the commando, cicada, or atlas varients have canon versions in this timeline that had ECM, meanwhile the two raven varients that don't have it should. Canon means nothing when it comes to getting ECM or not. The only reason Jenners didn't get it is that the forums though a giant fit as soon as it was announced because god forbid people not be giant QQing baby doomsayers.

Though with the recent weapon balance post if the machine gun buff goes through next patch Spiders could make excellent kill stealers/crit seekers. TAG and let the LRMS expose some armor, pop in, blow off any exposed sections with the double MGs, and bolt. Think how awesome these things will be at legging lights.

[ElLocoMarko]

In a spider at least you will probably die last. No one will want to stop all the pretty sparkles you make from your machine guns as they ricochet around ineffectively.