39 replies to this topic

[steelblueskies]

man i can so understand where you are coming from. progressed from hoping the founders program would run until december so i could spend bonus money on picking it up, to having it end and feeling i just saved wasting money.

went from trying to set up group sponsoring and recruit by demonstration and word of mouth to getting made to look like a ******.

"yeah guys great title, not finished but reasonably balanced with some really simple mechanics to pick up that combine in many a way to lead to wildly different playouts of otherwise similar situations, and it's pretty too, no op messiness or ttal garbage either" > half a week later, artemis lrm firing angle bug and wtf was i talking about feedback from peple who started right along with the bug.

that sort of crap keeps happening. hit stable and recommend, things get horked immediately after and i look like a ******.

i've just stopped. in fact i haven't actually been on this week.

[Regrets]

+1 the trial mechs are terrible. I get that modern game developers can't get their head out of the vertical progression box.. but for the love of god don't give them a rusty scimitar and pit them against twinks. Not only are the controls a bit difficult to understand the first few times, but literally the first ten games or are very frusterating. When I realized it was cause of tthe terrible configuration my head hit the ceiling. THEN I buy the cheapest mech I can Commando D1, yeah.. that didn't turn out well.

Please listen to the players, this game has potential, but needs some tweaks!

[Volume]

D34K, on 12 January 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Successfully onboarding the highest possible number of players from casually checking out the game to committed enough to participate in the community and spend cash requires a re-think on trial mechs. Everyone sees this, PGI haven't yet understood it. It's time to put egos aside or consider a compromise on trial mechs (see below).

Personally, I don't care much about this stuff with noob players. I play in one of the elite "premade" units; these thoughts are just as a "concerned member of community" and don't directly benefit what I or my team desperately want (a match lobby amd better netcode).

A suggested compromise on trial mechs.

Some kind of "Proving Grounds" where you play a number of matches against other people in trial mechs. Following that, some merc company leader or commander from one of the great Houses gives you 10 million cbills to buy and customise a mech and gives you some backstory.

What does this do?

• Your first games aren't against heavily optimised mechs that are fully tricked out with modules and Mastered.
  
• A gentle curve on game difficulty.
  
• Exposure to the fantastic BattleTech universe, giving some understanding of what is happening and who is who.
  
• A sense of ownership of a mech -- even let them have some paint. Read the fluff; a MechWarrior's relationship with their mech is deeply personal.
  
• Access to the MechLab. This is a key feature to get people sufficiently interested. It's one of the best features, let them have a taste.

There's so much potential with this game. With a relatively small pivot in the current development schedule, you could unlock some of that before it's too late for anyone to care.

This wouldn't even be that hard to do, and it would help so much...

I'm in the closed beta of a game that somehow makes MWO look like it has a lot of content. It has less weapons, less killing-machines-that-are-kind-of-equivalent-to-different-'mechs, and only one environment for gameplay.

However, they bothered to make a tutorial, even if it only has one voice actor. It makes a big difference to get people somewhat interested in the story/lore. Also, with the galaxy map, it makes each mission you do make it look and feel like you are progressing by doing different things, or that you have something to achieve from each mission won on top of the c-bills and pilot XP equivalents.

Edited by Volume, 13 January 2013 - 11:21 PM.

[Hawkwings]

They can't afford top-tier experts. Just like they can't afford to pay their employees, which is why their holiday break was so long.

[KerenskyClone]

2 things that this game desperately needs before anything else:

EU (and Oceania) servers!
Proper social chat, or game lobby where people can hang out, find friends and groups to drop with...

My 2c. Without these two this game will never come anywhere near the success of say....WoT....

[MWHawke]

Asmudius Heng, on 13 January 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

Agree but would take it even further. The entire scope of weapons balance and mech balance is so out of whack that trial mechs are pretty aweful.

When a trail mech is not too bad on the battlefield then things are closer to balance because they should be balanced being stock mechs from the TT which this game is based on.

Not that i hold to slavish adherance to TT at all but when i look at trials i think:

- The heat on this thing is rediculous
- My ammo is terrible
- Why have i got less than full amour (armour is worth way more than weapons in MWO - if lowering your armour was an actual tactica choice .... but alas)
- Why is the engine in this thing so terrible i canot even torso twist fast

These are not a problem with the trial mechs these are core mechanics problems.
- Lowering or raising armour should be a trade off for tactical choices - right now most people will be at pains to shave just a little bit off certain locations only.
- Heat is not working - not penalties for high heat other than shutdown and ammo cook off - and certain weapons are way too hot to be effective at the ranges the game is usually played at.
- Engines effect torso twist speed making lower rated engines AWEFUL for agility as well as speed which means people nearly ALWAYS up their engines rather than having engines as a trade off - bigger is nearly always better for the agility not just the speed.
- Ammo ... doubled armour but not doubled ammo. Nuff said
- Then there is netcode that makes certain weapons far less efficient.

Core mechanics choices make trial mechs bad showing a bad eye for balanced games and mechs.

Trial mechs will always suck while the developers insist the core mechanics of the games require no tweaking and are workign as intended. the Devs NEVER say - oh wow, we stuffed up and we are fixing it - they always put the onus on the players and say we are not playing correctly which is totally bogus.

Use LRMs dumb fire is my favourite one right now because firing at even 400 meters with LRMs will miss anyone with a shut down mech.

Honestly, if you play the TT, the trial mechs are pretty good in terms of overall build. They were designed with long range and short range weapons, but not the ability to fire all at one go. Something in MWO is making even using just the close-in weapons alone, overheat the mech.

[MWHawke]

Regrets, on 13 January 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

+1 the trial mechs are terrible. I get that modern game developers can't get their head out of the vertical progression box.. but for the love of god don't give them a rusty scimitar and pit them against twinks. Not only are the controls a bit difficult to understand the first few times, but literally the first ten games or are very frusterating. When I realized it was cause of tthe terrible configuration my head hit the ceiling. THEN I buy the cheapest mech I can Commando D1, yeah.. that didn't turn out well.

Please listen to the players, this game has potential, but needs some tweaks!

Maybe they could compare the number of games played, together with KDR to balance the drops? This would even stop DC before death cause in the end, they would be pitted against:
a) players who earned their KDR and die like the cheesy people their are
b ) players, who like them will DC at any sign near death and get a taste of their own medicine.

Edited by MWHawke, 14 January 2013 - 05:23 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

If we don't buy their overpriced colors and blinking cockpit lights, they won't be able to afford the professional experts.
If they don't afford the professional experts, there will be no one around to buy colors and blinking cockpit lights.

Sounds a bit of a vicious cycle. But ther emay be ways to break them, but I am not sure if there are under PGI's or IGP's control.

[MaddMaxx]

Just as a point of interest. You could take most new Pilots and put them in the most tricked out crazy damage generating profile ever devised by the crazy minds of the MWO MechLab elite and they would still suck and die horribly.

A Training Grounds Map, would likely be the best option. And sadly, you can't mentor any Player who would shuns the Team environment for whatever reason. They just don't care for the help of others and will be like all bad carpenters. They will alwasy simply blame their tools.

[MWHawke]

MaddMaxx, on 14 January 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

Just as a point of interest. You could take most new Pilots and put them in the most tricked out crazy damage generating profile ever devised by the crazy minds of the MWO MechLab elite and they would still suck and die horribly.

A Training Grounds Map, would likely be the best option. And sadly, you can't mentor any Player who would shuns the Team environment for whatever reason. They just don't care for the help of others and will be like all bad carpenters. They will alwasy simply blame their tools.

They don't even understand what is "Do NOT shoot that disconnected mech and waste time while the rest of your lance is being pummeled" while 4 of them shoot the disco mech..

[Esplodin]

Just put the most popular 4 builds in the trial section. No head scratching on loadout or what to put there, since there is a whole flock of beta testers doing it for you. Not a full solution, but enough to at least have a fighting chance.

[Asmudius Heng]

MWHawke, on 14 January 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

Honestly, if you play the TT, the trial mechs are pretty good in terms of overall build. They were designed with long range and short range weapons, but not the ability to fire all at one go. Something in MWO is making even using just the close-in weapons alone, overheat the mech.

Indeed, the entire point of mixed range builds etc is not as viable as in TT. The sheer lack of power of long range weapons is a big issue - or the ease of gettign in close perhaps might be a beter way to put it. The few shots you get at long range if you are facing a determined brawler opposition means those long range weapons are a burden once you hit short range.

Which is as it should be but they do not do enough damage before the brawler gets to you to make it worth the investment most of the time.

Insetad you have long range specialist mechs designed to keep at range and a brawler shield to stop the enemies gettiing in close. That just good tactics but the mixe range builds are far less optimum in most circumstances in organised games as the maps are so small and cluttered you can pretty much chose your place of engagement if you are not foolish.

[MWHawke]

Asmudius Heng, on 14 January 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Indeed, the entire point of mixed range builds etc is not as viable as in TT. The sheer lack of power of long range weapons is a big issue - or the ease of gettign in close perhaps might be a beter way to put it. The few shots you get at long range if you are facing a determined brawler opposition means those long range weapons are a burden once you hit short range.

Which is as it should be but they do not do enough damage before the brawler gets to you to make it worth the investment most of the time.

Insetad you have long range specialist mechs designed to keep at range and a brawler shield to stop the enemies gettiing in close. That just good tactics but the mixe range builds are far less optimum in most circumstances in organised games as the maps are so small and cluttered you can pretty much chose your place of engagement if you are not foolish.

Very true. Making bigger maps would help increase the tactical usage of long range weapons but we also have to remember that if the enemy is shrewd, they would still either use cover to the max or rush in as fast as possible. The team does need to gel together to fight as one. To make this possible, we come back to the issue of not having a launch bay to chat before game starts etc.

[MaddMaxx]

MWHawke, on 14 January 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

Very true. Making bigger maps would help increase the tactical usage of long range weapons but we also have to remember that if the enemy is shrewd, they would still either use cover to the max or rush in as fast as possible. The team does need to gel together to fight as one. To make this possible, we come back to the issue of not having a launch bay to chat before game starts etc.

It could be argued that your Brawlers should be out ahead engaging their Brawlers thus allowing more long ranged fire to applied. If the determined enemy brawlers turn their backs to your brawlers, then death should be their reward.

Again, bigger Maps, at least as big as many propose would not solve anything. Then you introduce a need to have Campers protect against the fast Light mechs that would steal your stuff and as a result some poor slob has to be the DT "designated turret" every match.

Bigger maps would be nice but not to much bigger. An Atlas running at 48kph is already pretty much toast for any chance to return, from beyond midfield, if the final guy gets to the Cap and the Assault happens to be your last man. Maps that are to large simply exacerbate that problem and then the Capping QQ begins back up again as no one want to be the DT...

Edited by MaddMaxx, 15 January 2013 - 05:33 AM.

[MWHawke]

MaddMaxx, on 15 January 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

It could be argued that your Brawlers should be out ahead engaging their Brawlers thus allowing more long ranged fire to applied. If the determined enemy brawlers turn their backs to your brawlers, then death should be their reward.

Again, bigger Maps, at least as big as many propose would not solve anything. Then you introduce a need to have Campers protect against the fast Light mechs that would steal your stuff and as a result some poor slob has to be the DT "designated turret" every match.

Bigger maps would be nice but not to much bigger. An Atlas running at 48kph is already pretty much toast for any chance to return, from beyond midfield, if the final guy gets to the Cap and the Assault happens to be your last man. Maps that are to large simply exacerbate that problem and then the Capping QQ begins back up again as no one want to be the DT...

That brings us back to mechs playing in their intended roles. Assault mechs are supposed to lumber onwards and roll over the opposition, BUT if a team were to take ALL Assaults, then they would run the problem of facing a lighter team.

This would force most teams to require mediums or fast heavies as the mech of choice, thereby putting the game back in balance with Canon.

[machine]

um can we return to point of post instead of this tangent?

edit i dont give a damn about canon, quality game play and solid introductory experience will bring me the most opponents and teams to crush.

crom.

Edited by machine, 15 January 2013 - 11:38 AM.

[Pando]

I love playing this game with my friends crushing people. That's because like you had mentioned I am an established player. I own literally everything worth owning in the game with upgrades and duplicates to boot.

That being said machine, what about PGI/IGP closing the doors for now and freezing the clock. Closing down "open beta" and focusing more on development rather than giving us roadmaps or in-depth q&a sessions. Then, when the time is right and the moons are aligned re-launching with Steam for example going full force into community warfare.

Edited by Pando, 15 January 2013 - 11:56 AM.

[machine]

It would kill the game

[JDH4mm3r]

I agree with everything here and then some. I've been playing the mech series for a long time...going on 14 years, but at first.... here was my new user intake when i first started:

Day one: trial mechs sux (played uptowards 10+ games before i bought a hero mech) I do openly admit that the game sucked to firewolf on a number of times, but kept playing to just give it a chance.
Day 2: meh, but it's slightly arousing
day 3: see day one
day 4: and then onwards.... it's hammertime!
day 45 or so: meh and sort of meh.

But i'm an old vet and i adapt quite fast, but the new user experience is a huge turn off at this point. I'm sure a friend of mine can vouch for me on this.

This game needs the bugs fixed in the worst sort of way and new maps....i don't mean same versions of what we currently have right now, I mean something a lot like this:

a Moon base map where gravity is that of the moon's or somewhat closer to it - should make for interesting things!

A heavy gravity map with super crushing weight kinda thing... like the MW2 map, Canyon and forest kinda maps. Those 2 had a lot of gravity there.

Just a bit of an example....perhaps an underwater map too. I could go on with that because.... 4 current maps are boring. River city night is nothing new really.

-JD

[Fut]

D34K, on 12 January 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Successfully onboarding the highest possible number of players from casually checking out the game to committed enough to participate in the community and spend cash requires a re-think on trial mechs. Everyone sees this, PGI haven't yet understood it. It's time to put egos aside or consider a compromise on trial mechs (see below).

Personally, I don't care much about this stuff with noob players. I play in one of the elite "premade" units; these thoughts are just as a "concerned member of community" and don't directly benefit what I or my team desperately want (a match lobby amd better netcode).

A suggested compromise on trial mechs.

Some kind of "Proving Grounds" where you play a number of matches against other people in trial mechs. Following that, some merc company leader or commander from one of the great Houses gives you 10 million cbills to buy and customise a mech and gives you some backstory.

What does this do?

• Your first games aren't against heavily optimised mechs that are fully tricked out with modules and Mastered.
  
• A gentle curve on game difficulty.
  
• Exposure to the fantastic BattleTech universe, giving some understanding of what is happening and who is who.
  
• A sense of ownership of a mech -- even let them have some paint. Read the fluff; a MechWarrior's relationship with their mech is deeply personal.
  
• Access to the MechLab. This is a key feature to get people sufficiently interested. It's one of the best features, let them have a taste.

There's so much potential with this game. With a relatively small pivot in the current development schedule, you could unlock some of that before it's too late for anyone to care.

Holy ****. This is a great idea.
Extremely well thought out, and I honestly can't find a flaw in it.

PGI - DO THIS NOW. Please.
Thanks,