49 replies to this topic

[DogmeatX]

If anyone from the dev team revisits this thread, the Commander ideas are nice but PLEASE look at the old Tribes games, especially Tribes 2. They had some fantastic canned chat voice commands which could add a waypoint to specific things ingame e.g.

VTF - Fire on my Target (Press V to bring the menu up then T for target commands, F for this one)

If you used this command on an enemy/item it would get temporarily available as a waypoint/marker.

If a teammate then used VCA (Command Acknowledged) it would then get accepted as a waypoint/hud marker for them to navigate towards and attack.

Of course you;d have some extra considerations here e.g. line of sight but please please look into it, I think it could make a noticeable difference for pub play in MWO..

[Mawai]

And then you get the idiots ...

In one game I suggested: "Let's stick together and focus fire" ... an ***** on my own team decided he did not like anyone offering any leadership advice ... TKed another player on the team and engaged me for the rest of the match chanting about anyone who might try to lead deserved to be overthrown. We obviously lost with 3 mechs out of the action. Needless to say they were reported and dealt with by PGI.

P.S. Lol at the language filter ... idiots is ok but the singular is not ...

Edited by Mawai, 14 January 2013 - 12:10 PM.

[DragonsFire]

I've been using the Command option in every single PUB drop that I do. For the most part, I can get people to follow to a grid on the map and hold it or move from there. Most people dropping solo are looking for at least some semblance of team play and when someone steps up to take the Command role, some cohesion can be found.

It's no substitute for VOIP, but it can be used to great benefit, and the items listed in Thomas's post show some further considerations being given to the role that I believe will supplement it nicely.

[Rodder]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 13 January 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

To put simply...

We will be giving XP/CBILLS for following orders

We will be giving XP/CBILLS for giving successful orders

Commanders will have more options to play with like
-Aristrike, Artillery, UAVs etc
-More Complex orders (Waypoints, formations, draw lines that show a front etc

Commanders will be given Commander points which will let them 'gain rank' and be able to take control of a team over someone with fewer Commander points

This will be a small incentive and I doubt that people will listen to what the commander says unless they know them. But maybe after a few hundred successful games people will recognize a commader that is doing a good job.

Design for this is not ready yet and there are more important things to do first sadly.
Design subject to change and I don't have a release date for it yet. My guess, by Summer.

This would be awesome.

I am a good pilot, but i am no commander. I like someone with a good situational awareness to give orders because i am focused on the fight.

I am pugging almost exclusive, and in every single pug game i have played where someone took the commander role, people followed his orders. We need more good commanders and they need the proper tools.

[Krazyjim]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 13 January 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

To put simply...

We will be giving XP/CBILLS for following orders

We will be giving XP/CBILLS for giving successful orders

Commanders will have more options to play with like
-Aristrike, Artillery, UAVs etc
-More Complex orders (Waypoints, formations, draw lines that show a front etc

Commanders will be given Commander points which will let them 'gain rank' and be able to take control of a team over someone with fewer Commander points

This will be a small incentive and I doubt that people will listen to what the commander says unless they know them. But maybe after a few hundred successful games people will recognize a commader that is doing a good job.

Design for this is not ready yet and there are more important things to do first sadly.
Design subject to change and I don't have a release date for it yet. My guess, by Summer.

Pinch me, I must be dreaming!

[FrDrake]

I do find it interesting that I have a way easier time doing the Commander job after I'm dead than when my mech is alive. When I'm dead I can pull up the battlegrid and then flip between everyone's mechs to get all the information I need. After I die I spend the rest of the match either coaching a newer player or if there's a chance at a win I'll call out the enemy mech types/positions for the team as well as which crit sections to target that has open armor on them. If commanding was that easy when I was alive in my mech then the role would be very potent.

Another thing that being dead gives you is the loadout/ammo left on your allies and an accurate representation of their armor values. There's just so much information that a good commander needs that's only available after you're dead :/.

[Rift Hawk]

Hunt ER, on 13 January 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

The commander role has one problem - You cant force rest of team to obey your orders.

Oh and how we know most of the time they don't.....

People see an X on the minimap and they go to it all the while ignoring chat.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

FrDrake, on 14 January 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I do find it interesting that I have a way easier time doing the Commander job after I'm dead than when my mech is alive. When I'm dead I can pull up the battlegrid and then flip between everyone's mechs to get all the information I need. After I die I spend the rest of the match either coaching a newer player or if there's a chance at a win I'll call out the enemy mech types/positions for the team as well as which crit sections to target that has open armor on them. If commanding was that easy when I was alive in my mech then the role would be very potent.

Another thing that being dead gives you is the loadout/ammo left on your allies and an accurate representation of their armor values. There's just so much information that a good commander needs that's only available after you're dead :/.

Maybe this is something that could be implemented with a command console? Trouble is most people can't do that and pilot a mech in battle.

[Hellen Wheels]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 13 January 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

To put simply...

We will be giving XP/CBILLS for following orders

We will be giving XP/CBILLS for giving successful orders

Commanders will have more options to play with like
-Aristrike, Artillery, UAVs etc
-More Complex orders (Waypoints, formations, draw lines that show a front etc

Commanders will be given Commander points which will let them 'gain rank' and be able to take control of a team over someone with fewer Commander points

This will be a small incentive and I doubt that people will listen to what the commander says unless they know them. But maybe after a few hundred successful games people will recognize a commader that is doing a good job.

Design for this is not ready yet and there are more important things to do first sadly.
Design subject to change and I don't have a release date for it yet. My guess, by Summer.

Nice. Thanks for the update. Been waiting for the airstrikes etc. and was wondering if they had been forgotten. Glad to know that they are still in the works!
=H=

[Strum Wealh]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 13 January 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

To put simply...

We will be giving XP/CBILLS for following orders

We will be giving XP/CBILLS for giving successful orders

Commanders will have more options to play with like
-Aristrike, Artillery, UAVs etc
-More Complex orders (Waypoints, formations, draw lines that show a front etc

Commanders will be given Commander points which will let them 'gain rank' and be able to take control of a team over someone with fewer Commander points

This will be a small incentive and I doubt that people will listen to what the commander says unless they know them. But maybe after a few hundred successful games people will recognize a commader that is doing a good job.

Design for this is not ready yet and there are more important things to do first sadly.
Design subject to change and I don't have a release date for it yet. My guess, by Summer.

What abilities are, or might be, planned for implementation with the Command Console to assist with the Commander role?

For example, will it allow a Commander to generate ghost targets (Tactical Operations, pg. 102), gain special abilities (like generating a large-scale ECCM field, boosting teammates' walk/run speeds or targeting ranges, etc) via uplink to different types of satellites (Tactical Operations, pg. 194-195), make use of remote sensors (Tactical Operations, pg. 224), and so on?

[Alex Wolfe]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 13 January 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

Commanders will have more options to play with like
-Aristrike, Artillery, UAVs etc

Gogo killstreak/deathstreak rewards!

Cut the rope? This game is dope.

I kid. Just please be careful with them artillery strikes and stuff, we've spent enough time in the space trenches as it is.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 14 January 2013 - 02:36 PM.

[Herodes]

Quote

To put simply...

We will be giving XP/CBILLS for following orders

We will be giving XP/CBILLS for giving successful orders

Commanders will have more options to play with like
-Aristrike, Artillery, UAVs etc
-More Complex orders (Waypoints, formations, draw lines that show a front etc

Commanders will be given Commander points which will let them 'gain rank' and be able to take control of a team over someone with fewer Commander points

This will be a small incentive and I doubt that people will listen to what the commander says unless they know them. But maybe after a few hundred successful games people will recognize a commader that is doing a good job.

Design for this is not ready yet and there are more important things to do first sadly.
Design subject to change and I don't have a release date for it yet. My guess, by Summer.

Good to hear !!!

My suggestion would be to include the audio channel into the command system. Our optical system, meaning the eyes, are already overloaded with a plethora of information and reading chat or looking at orders might be very difficult for some players. I know it is for me.
Now, in audio we have boom and bang and not much more, so there is plenty of room to transfer information with audio signals like, for example, canned messages about targets, defending, attacking or locations as well as key sounds to alert the player for new orders.

[elsie]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 13 January 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

To put simply...

We will be giving XP/CBILLS for following orders

We will be giving XP/CBILLS for giving successful orders

Commanders will have more options to play with like
-Aristrike, Artillery, UAVs etc
-More Complex orders (Waypoints, formations, draw lines that show a front etc

Commanders will be given Commander points which will let them 'gain rank' and be able to take control of a team over someone with fewer Commander points

This will be a small incentive and I doubt that people will listen to what the commander says unless they know them. But maybe after a few hundred successful games people will recognize a commader that is doing a good job.

Design for this is not ready yet and there are more important things to do first sadly.
Design subject to change and I don't have a release date for it yet. My guess, by Summer.

It would be nice if any actions regarding the Battlegrid were echoed to team chat (and would stay up for longer than they currently do). Also adding a waypoint marker to the compass (something different, like a pentagon for move to).


elsie

[WVAnonymous]

+1 for audio delivery. Bitchin' Betty can tell me to hold coordinate E7

-1 for tiny maps. The distance allows for time to engagement that is too short to allow for real rear-echelon activity. We're looking at having at best a 2nd lieutenant ("Follow me") around when you get to these distances. If the commander has to disengage from his screen for more than 5 seconds (after the first two minutes) he is toast.

Maybe a translucent full map overlay option, so visibility is maintained during command activity?

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

I'd like to see more people taking command in PUGs. I would follow.

[Dragonkindred]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 13 January 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

To put simply...

We will be giving XP/CBILLS for following orders

We will be giving XP/CBILLS for giving successful orders

Commanders will have more options to play with like
-Aristrike, Artillery, UAVs etc
-More Complex orders (Waypoints, formations, draw lines that show a front etc

Commanders will be given Commander points which will let them 'gain rank' and be able to take control of a team over someone with fewer Commander points

This will be a small incentive and I doubt that people will listen to what the commander says unless they know them. But maybe after a few hundred successful games people will recognize a commader that is doing a good job.

Design for this is not ready yet and there are more important things to do first sadly.
Design subject to change and I don't have a release date for it yet. My guess, by Summer.

Thanks for posting Thomas. That's great intel and a nice reminder to the nay sayers that you guys don't read, post etc.

A quick question; Will you need a DC version of a mech with a comand console, or will that just give you added benefits on top?

[Lynette Steffeld]

I've always been doing the "Operator" role on skype, but due to my refusal to open the map and click around for the other 5 (or sometimes 4) people who cannot hear me, I haven't really been acquainted with the command features yet.

Experience states that you can command all you want, but sometimes people will YOLO away anyway. If we ever approach the era (not sure if this is already available/possible) where we can access voice comms just by a single press of the in-game UI, then maybe I'd be able to do a lot more.

The thing about command roles is that they seem to be split into two archetypes:

1> Stand hidden somewhere and pretend to be playing chess, while hoping that you don't get shot at by runaway lights

2> Lead from the front and have a restricted FOV/ field knowledge as a result due to FOV and realistic expectations of how much information someone can process while in combat.

It's efficient to have BOTH, but unless the command player is loaded with long-range engagement weapons I still find it hard to command and contribute damage-wise at once.

Perhaps if contributions via command actions alone were enabled, that'd be different, but that opens up a lot of other derpy possibilities - if command actions gave you EXP or CB, I can bet people will open them randomly and place points (dominoes maybe) on the map just for the sake of gaining EXP/CB.

Due to the fact that it's more or less impossible to give credit to voice commands no matter how you look at it (unless we pull a SWTOR and add in a MVP system, but even if we did that it's still open to abuse), sometimes effort does go unrecognized/ unrewarded. I for one simply enjoy harping (non-stop) when roving with my regular friends, or while armshielding with my DDC at the front.

When I played SWTOR I had a commando (not our commando, sadly), and as such was equipped with a pewpew cannon. I would be able to effectively communicate to teammates without voice by typing and keeping a lookout from high vantage points, while at the same time being able to blast people to bits with my Grav rounds. It really depends on the player's priorities/ personality/ capability.

With all that said and done though, when was the last time a PUG actually spoke?

And no, I don't refer to "omfg l2p yu ECM nub" chatter.


TLDR: Command roles are nice, but system needs work. Meanwhile, I will keep warbling on skype.

Yay

[CrashieJ]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 13 January 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

To put simply...

We will be giving XP/CBILLS for following orders

We will be giving XP/CBILLS for giving successful orders

Commanders will have more options to play with like
-Aristrike, Artillery, UAVs etc
-More Complex orders (Waypoints, formations, draw lines that show a front etc

Commanders will be given Commander points which will let them 'gain rank' and be able to take control of a team over someone with fewer Commander points

This will be a small incentive and I doubt that people will listen to what the commander says unless they know them. But maybe after a few hundred successful games people will recognize a commader that is doing a good job.

Design for this is not ready yet and there are more important things to do first sadly.
Design subject to change and I don't have a release date for it yet. My guess, by Summer.

oh I see no amount of abuse there:

ok team, I want you to go to waypoints Alpha to ZetaZetaZetaZeta... END OF MATCH BONUS +100,000,000 command bonus; + 10075 XP + 5000 GXP + 300 Command points

*unlocked UAV strike!!!!*

[ArmandTulsen]

Hunt ER, on 13 January 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

The commander role has one problem - You cant force rest of team to obey your orders.

I think this sentence needs to be rephrased.

There are no repurcussions for disobeying orders.

There should be a system in place where the commander issues an order such as, "move to," "attack target," "defend target," and then the player's hud is updated with a nav point or a target with a marker on it.

Of course, the incentive would be XP and CB bonuses. The bonuses would be small, but with enough orders - not redundant ones - it should add up nicely in one match.

A winning match should yield a commander's bonus for the guy taking the risk to assume the role and pay attention to many things in the battlefield. That is, your team followed your orders, got XP and CB as a result, and you won. Dying as a commander should give a smaller bonus, or no bonus at all.

Implementation of these features would make the commander role very relevant - important even.

Edited by ArmandTulsen, 15 January 2013 - 03:02 AM.

[warner2]

DragonsFire, on 14 January 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

Most people dropping solo are looking for at least some semblance of team play and when someone steps up to take the Command role, some cohesion can be found.

This is true.