40 replies to this topic

[Panserbjorne]

Ok! So I have been reading up on the LBX-10 and just about the only convincing argument that I have seen for it's use is that it has a chance to deal more critical damage.

So here's the question. If the LBX-10 does 1 point of damage per pellet and most weapons / items / engine slots (with the notable exception of the gauss rifle) have 10 hp, then how does it crit seek better than any other weapon?

This is not a question about whether the LBX-10 is more useful than an AC-10 or even a question about whether or not it is useful at all (so please don't argue about this). It is simply a question about how critical damage works and whether or not the LBX-10 exploits this system to its advantage.

[Mikhalio]

LBX is worthless in reality, the spread of pellets is useless and it builds more heat per second then a good SRM spam.

Never use LBX

[Valkyrie Brynhildr]

I dunno about him but the LBX may have a higher chance for Critical Damage. Sure, it can't beat a SRM spam but not every mech is a Catapult or Stalker.

I use a Cataphract X1 with 2 LBXs in the arms and numerous times, a good close shot to an unarmored torso will be fatal. As for heat, I never have heat issues with the LBX and it fires faster than an AC/10.

[Coole]

If think that its just more likely to hit unarmored parts because of the spread. So its better at crit seeking if you're aim for unarmored areas is awful.

[Panserbjorne]

Mikhalio, on 13 January 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

LBX is worthless in reality, the spread of pellets is useless and it builds more heat per second then a good SRM spam.

Never use LBX

Though I appreciate your quick response, I would also appreciate it if you read my short OP before responding, as you responded in excatly the way I had specified for people not to.

Coole, on 13 January 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

If think that its just more likely to hit unarmored parts because of the spread. So its better at crit seeking if you're aim for unarmored areas is awful.

I guess that's my question. What good is crit seeking (and maybe I'm misunderstanding the term), if you only do a few damage to the crits you hit (wouldn't a large laser arc crit seek just as well?)?

[Orzorn]

Panserbjorne, on 13 January 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

What good is crit seeking (and maybe I'm misunderstanding the term), if you only do a few damage to the crits you hit (wouldn't a large laser arc crit seek just as well?)?

The answer is that there isn't any good to it. An SRM is a better crit killer anyways, since each missile does 2.5 damage.

I don't understand why its okay for SRMs to have 2.5 damage because they have a "shotgun effect", meaning they spread around, but the LB-10X doesn't get more damage per pellet, and its definitely a shotgun?

[Noth]

Valkyrie Brynhildr, on 13 January 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

I use a Cataphract X1 with 2 LBXs in the arms and numerous times, a good close shot to an unarmored torso will be fatal. As for heat, I never have heat issues with the LBX and it fires faster than an AC/10.

That's true for any weapon, and many can do it at much longer range. LBX is due to get a critical bonus where it does extra damage on crits, but I really don't think that will help much.

Orzorn, on 13 January 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

I don't understand why its okay for SRMs to have 2.5 damage because they have a "shotgun effect", meaning they spread around, but the LB-10X doesn't get more damage per pellet, and its definitely a shotgun?

This all stems from the fact that the LBX is not supposed to be a shotgun. It is supposed to fire a canister that explodes at a range or near a target, peppering it with the submunitions. It is also supposed to be able to fire normal slug rounds.

[Orzorn]

Noth, on 13 January 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

This all stems from the fact that the LBX is not supposed to be a shotgun. It is supposed to fire a canister that explodes at a range or near a target, peppering it with the submunitions. It is also supposed to be able to fire normal slug rounds.

Yes yes, I understand all of that, but if they're going to implement it as a shotgun (and as one that can't fire normal rounds), then they should treat it properly.

[Noth]

Orzorn, on 13 January 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

Yes yes, I understand all of that, but if they're going to implement it as a shotgun (and as one that can't fire normal rounds), then they should treat it properly.

They are going to give it bonus crit damage (similar to what they are going to do to Machine Guns) to make it a better crit seeker like it was in TT. So they are doing something with it.

[Viper69]

THey need to up the damn damage per pellet F F S already.

[Panserbjorne]

If the damage to crits was increased and it gave a cockpit shake that is a bit more than an ac10 that would seem like a proper balance to me.

[Murku]

critical damage occurs per hit (something about 1 to 3 crit chances a hit), and damages the system affected by it's remaining damage value.

Therefore an AC10 on an unarmored section will affect just 1 system, destroying it if it isn't an engine (15hp)
An Lbx will affect upto 10 systems (with many duplicate effects possible) doing 1 damage each crit.

So no, Lbx are worse at critting as they spread their effects across internals, while Ac10s kill what they hit.

[Noth]

Panserbjorne, on 13 January 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

If the damage to crits was increased and it gave a cockpit shake that is a bit more than an ac10 that would seem like a proper balance to me.

It already does give more cockpit shake than the AC10.

[Mikhalio]

Thontor, on 13 January 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

The LB 10-X AC does not get a critical damage buff right now... It does not deal more critical damage.. In fact its less useful for destroying components thana regular AC/10 right now.

Devs have said they are thinking about giving the pellets a damage bonus against components, but that hasn't been done yet.

Just wait until they put different ammo types in for the LB 10-X, which they have said they want to do... It will outclass the regular AC/10 in every way.

Right now the only thing it's good for is hitting light mechs if you have trouble doing that with a regular AC.

This is correct, and OP now has the answer I hope he is looking for.

[ConnorSinclair]

The deal with LBX is that the rules got changed by PGI from table top.

In TT LBX is pretty much a confirmed shut down of all equipment when your armor is gone.

In this game it's like, oh hey 1 damage against the HP of an AC20, LAME.

It kills me how much in this game is broken simply because PGI decided to fiddle with the numbers. All missile weapons do bonus damage compared to what they should be doing right now.

If you want to know if a mech will do well just look around for missile hardpoints.

[WildeKarde]

Not sure they are so weak if used close in as you would a shotgun. I played a cataphract 4x with two of them and you could rip through a lot of mechs when you got in close. Just seems to rip the armour apart.

Even better when you get someone who's already been taking a bit of damage

[Noth]

Jake Hendricks, on 13 January 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

Not sure they are so weak if used close in as you would a shotgun. I played a cataphract 4x with two of them and you could rip through a lot of mechs when you got in close. Just seems to rip the armour apart.

Even better when you get someone who's already been taking a bit of damage

AC10 will kill in that situation due to more precise damage, SRMs will also kill quicker due to more raw damage.

[ConnorSinclair]

Jake Hendricks, on 13 January 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

Not sure they are so weak if used close in as you would a shotgun. I played a cataphract 4x with two of them and you could rip through a lot of mechs when you got in close. Just seems to rip the armour apart.

Even better when you get someone who's already been taking a bit of damage

Thats because if the armor is worn, you're probably penetrating it and causing crits.

I don't see the " rip armor apart " argument as it's only 10 dam for each weapon and only " IF " they all land.

So basically you're probably hitting mechs for about 14 dam or 16-18 if you're cutting close.

You could be carrying 2 AC10's and doing much better


***Annendum, your 2 LBX10's are Inferior to 1 SRM6 at 15 damage***

GG PGI, NO RE

Edited by ConnorSinclair, 13 January 2013 - 03:50 PM.

[Mikhalio]

Jake Hendricks, on 13 January 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

Not sure they are so weak if used close in as you would a shotgun. I played a cataphract 4x with two of them and you could rip through a lot of mechs when you got in close. Just seems to rip the armour apart.

Even better when you get someone who's already been taking a bit of damage

Yes, but your DPS is still suboptimal vs. a AC10 phrat or dual UAC5 build, that given the ability to focus your fire; would give you more kills given the concentrated DPS and damage done to single armor segments and critical slots.

[Grey Ghost]

Thontor, on 13 January 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

Just wait until they put different ammo types in for the LB 10-X, which they have said they want to do... It will outclass the regular AC/10 in every way.

Who, what, where was this said?