47 replies to this topic

[Xigunder Blue]

Heffay, on 14 January 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

How will having a ranking system hurt the game? It only helped every other game out there that has implemented it. Why is MWO going to be the special snowflake that somehow gets ruined by this?

Never said it would hurt the game, merely something like skill segregation might not be a good thing for player retention. MWO is actually a 'snowflake' game. One shot insta-death is rare. A player does have a chance to improve without dying almost immediately, a chance to learn something and get better, even against more expert twitch players. All good things and when joining a 'team', I tripled my enjoyment of this game despite not being super at twitch play. My friends in the Legion of Phobos unit have helped be get better with both tactical use of my mech and twitch tips as well. This is starting to be the best Team play game I have encountered so far. Starting to be - I am waiting like all of us to see how it developes. Will ranking of some type be helpful or harmful? With the game play so far implemented I cannot be sure. You could very well be right that it could improve things - like I said I am waiting to see and I accept your opinion that it will help - but still waiting to see.

[Heffay]

You aren't waiting to see though. You stated that it will kill the game.

[Noth]

Xigunder Blue, on 14 January 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

Never said it would hurt the game, merely something like skill segregation might not be a good thing for player retention. MWO is actually a 'snowflake' game. One shot insta-death is rare. A player does have a chance to improve without dying almost immediately, a chance to learn something and get better, even against more expert twitch players. All good things and when joining a 'team', I tripled my enjoyment of this game despite not being super at twitch play. My friends in the Legion of Phobos unit have helped be get better with both tactical use of my mech and twitch tips as well. This is starting to be the best Team play game I have encountered so far. Starting to be - I am waiting like all of us to see how it developes. Will ranking of some type be helpful or harmful? With the game play so far implemented I cannot be sure. You could very well be right that it could improve things - like I said I am waiting to see and I accept your opinion that it will help - but still waiting to see.

Skill segregation has never been a bad thing in any game. Skill segregation allows people to get better. It doesn't always put you with equal player it is a range and you improve in that range and advance. All real world evidence just prove the idea that skill segregation is good for pretty much any game.

[Xigunder Blue]

Canis Arctos, on 14 January 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

So you are saying : "nerf the stuff who kills me or i don´t give you my money ?"

Official statement from every gouverment of the world :
"we don't negotiate with terrorist"

It is nothing personal but aslong everyone can use every mech / weapon he wants to. There is no "unfair" gameplay.
I have seen it in every game i did ever play ( online ) there are always weapons or platforms ( call it character or mech ) who are "better" as others. You can not make a game or a match totaly balanced.
If that would be the case + ELO ranking + map the pure luck would decide who will win a match.
Everyone would be the same at every map at every time all over the world.

That is not a game that would be boring.
The challange is to find a counter vs your enemy setup ( pug or CW ). Either with skill or with a better setup or even both.


edit : if you want to stick with your own mind and your mech you "love" okay... you have to be so good that you can compete or simple life with the fact that you always have a downside and maybe lose ( if your mech setup or w/e is not so good but you play it because you want )

"SIGH" - no one said anything about 'nerfing'. The post was about ranking skill levels with some type of skill segregation. Whether it would be a positive or negative to player retention. Would not mind hearing your opinion on that posted subject. In other words, recognizing that incoming players have different natural abilities (hand/eye co-ordination, tactical recognition, situational awareness) and how that should be handled in gameplay with an eye to player retention (and continued game success). Nerfing things or mechoice (love) are irevelant to this original subject. Both sides have been presented in the posts so far.

[Canis Arctos]

Xigunder Blue, on 14 January 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

"SIGH" - no one said anything about 'nerfing'. The post was about ranking skill levels with some type of skill segregation. Whether it would be a positive or negative to player retention. Would not mind hearing your opinion on that posted subject. In other words, recognizing that incoming players have different natural abilities (hand/eye co-ordination, tactical recognition, situational awareness) and how that should be handled in gameplay with an eye to player retention (and continued game success). Nerfing things or mechoice (love) are irevelant to this original subject. Both sides have been presented in the posts so far.

I give you the credit that my comment wasn´t on topic.

But maybe you should read his statement and what text he did quote from me. My post wasn´t for ELO or not. It was about that he said that he don´t want adapt / learn or he wouldn´t spend money.

I will step out of this thread and forum again. I thought i could find usefull stuff and maybe help some people here. It seems i was wrong.

Thank you for your time to reading and understanding my posts.

[King Arthur IV]

all i can say is, elo will make people more competitive. competitiveness will drive players to win, which will intern lead to better team work.
down side is, there will be loads of flaming and the **** players/unlucky players will get left behind. months down the line after the higher elo players have figure out some basic tactics, the lower elo player will catch on through forums and/or vids.

it is up to igp to create a fun game and up to the existing player base to not be D-dags and turn the noobs away.

love, peace and no famine.

[Mechteric]

Its also important to note that most likely the ELO will not match all 8 players around the same rating, instead you'll have some higher, some lower mixed in and the opposite team similarly so.

[Kaijin]

Elo will be positive for my retention...

[Bguk]

Kaijin, on 14 January 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

Elo will be positive for my retention...

<img>

You can still achieve those results no matter where you lie on the rankings.

[Kaijin]

Bguk, on 14 January 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

You can still achieve those results no matter where you lie on the rankings.

Seriously doubt I'm in the double digit damage tier. I might get one out of 8 who're that unlucky to get popped before they've had a chance to do significant damage - It might even be me, but I've never seen the like as that scoreboard when playing with teammates in a similar ability bracket as myself.

Edited by Kaijin, 14 January 2013 - 08:21 AM.

[Elandyll]

OPs post is silly.

How would putting a chessmaster in front of a newbie improve their skills, except in getting beat in ways he cannot even grasp (the newbie)?

You improve by playing hard fought matches against "similar" (not necessarily equal) level players.

Getting curb stomped 8-0 is NOT, contrarily to what those who just like easy wins say, "better" for the ones being curb stomped.
You increase your skill by the number of matches (experience), by trying new things and playing with various players with sometimes new strategies, and by having a mix of wins and losses (and yes, sometimes, bad ones).

But getting reliably stomped in the ground because you play against someone you have virtually no chance of beating to start with (be it because of experience differential or Pug vs premade), that won't teach you much except giving you an idea of how sh*tty the matchmaking is.

[Bguk]

Kaijin, on 14 January 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

Seriously doubt I'm in the double digit damage tier. I might get one out of 8 who're that unlucky to get popped before they've had a chance to do significant damage - It might even be me, but I've never seen the like as that scoreboard when playing with teammates in a similar ability bracket as myself.

Now I see fully what you meant by it. One game does not equate to being in the correct tier. Games that are not the norm do happen. At least we'll all be matched up on a fairly decent basis as to what our overall skill level is, where we can overcome the bad games.

Also, agree with Elandyll.

[Mackman]

Xigunder Blue, on 14 January 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

We are not all created equal skilled at keyboard and hand/eye co-ordination. Segregating 'skill levels' is a road to nichedom and slide to game slo-death.

Maybe PGI want an EVE type niche game with a base player segment. We might see when the so-called ELO and CW are implemented. I for one will be waiting to see what 'direction' PGI will be taking. I invite your opinions (and flame if u like).

Are you serious? "Segregating" skill levels is what gives a game longevity. There will be some Groups that are super-hardcore, only recruiting the best of the best. There will be other groups that are much more casual, with a "Come and have fun!" emphasis. That's how groups work in LoL, the most successful F2P game in the market (and by the way, I'm pretty sure that's already how groups in MWO work now).

No new player wants to play against veterans. You know what happens when the average newbie with a trial mech realizes that every game he plays, he has a better than average chance of getting stomped by hardened vets with tricked out, improved custom mechs? He quits. And really, why shouldn't he, when people like you are just going to tell him to suck it up and suffer through landslide loss after landslide loss until he somehow gets better?

As a newbie (say, skill level 1), you don't get better by playing against skill level 20's. That just leads to frustration and ragequitting. You get better by playing against skill level 2's and 3's. until you're just as good as they are. That's how improvement works, and that's how the ELO matchmaking is going to work. If you want to be hardcore, join a hardcore group. If you don't, then join a "for fun" group.

TLDR: There's nothing "niche" about skill-based matchmaking. What's "niche" is a game that expects newbies to suffer through loss after loss against experienced players until they improve enough to actually enjoy the game.

EDIT: Elandyll said it better two posts above me.

Edited by Mackman, 14 January 2013 - 08:30 AM.

[Taiji]

If there is no stat reset then the top tier of players are going to be premaders who suck

[Bguk]

Taiji, on 14 January 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

If there is no stat reset then the top tier of players are going to be premaders who suck

And will eventually fall into a lower tier when they start losing to better teams. One of the good things about the system.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Taiji, on 14 January 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

If there is no stat reset then the top tier of players are going to be premaders who suck

I think your confused over how the metric works, it has nothing to do with your current stats.

Everyone starts at the same ELO rank.

[Taiji]

Bguk, on 14 January 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

And will eventually fall into a lower tier when they start losing to better teams. One of the good things about the system.

Split the stats and start them at the bottom tier for pugging.

DV McKenna, on 14 January 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

I think your confused over how the metric works, it has nothing to do with your current stats.

Everyone starts at the same ELO rank.

So you say there's going to be a stats reset for ranking like I suggested. I hope they go the whole way and wipe them. So many not-so-good people around here with silly-good stats.

BTW I don't see anything confusing yet, perhaps apart from your assertion that I might be confused, if I let it.

Edited by Taiji, 14 January 2013 - 09:00 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

I love it when people are opposed to those that work hard to be great at a game and call them names. It makes it all that much more pleasurable and worth the effort.

[Taiji]

Mister Blastman, on 14 January 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

I love it when people are opposed to those that work hard to be great at a game and call them names. It makes it all that much more pleasurable and worth the effort.

Me too, my fave compliment to receive in-game is "hacker!"

But it's actually never happened to me in MWO

Edited by Taiji, 14 January 2013 - 09:03 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Taiji, on 14 January 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

So you say there's going to be a stats reset for ranking like I suggested. I hope they go the whole way and wipe them. So many not-so-good people around here with silly-good stats.

BTW I don't see anything confusing yet, perhaps apart from your assertion that I might be confused, if I let it.

No i think you misunderstand, there is no need for any stats wipe.

ELO and Stats are separate, your current stats do not effect ELO