36 replies to this topic

[lordsegan]

I saw a pulse laser hunchback the other day that looked like he was doing pretty good damage chainfiring his guns. It wasn't stripping the guts out of big mechs, but he was tearing stuff down in the brawl melee.

What do you all think?

[Adrienne Vorton]

i love medium pulses, and probably will go for large pulses again when the heat tweak for PPC and pulse weapons is done...

pulse lasers deal slightly more damage, are more accurate (dealing damage faster) and, most important, have a higher critical chance... but currently the large pulse is slightly too hot to make it a really good deal... but i still use it sometimes...mediums though...rrrr love em...

[Hellen Wheels]

lordsegan, on 14 January 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

I saw a pulse laser hunchback the other day that looked like he was doing pretty good damage chainfiring his guns. It wasn't stripping the guts out of big mechs, but he was tearing stuff down in the brawl melee.

What do you all think?

I think they make the coolest sound in the game, and so I will always carry at least one just to make that cool sound.

Adrienne Vorton, on 14 January 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

but currently the large pulse is slightly too hot to make it a really good deal...

I've got 2 Large Pulse Lasers on my Atlas, and it rarely overheats, even with the 3x SRM4 and 2x AC5

26 Heat Sinks.

I love my Atty, even tho' it is slow as molasses.
=H=

Edited by Hellen Wheels, 14 January 2013 - 02:38 PM.

[Serapth]

Mediums are great, especially for getting kills. Large, not so much. Need the upcoming tweak badly.

[SpiralRazor]

Small pulses are junk.

Medium pulses are still good, but you have to be fast enough to deal with the limited range

Large pulses are junk.





You know, I dont know what or why, but as I was driving in the car today something popped in my head about why Large Pulses are so bad in MWO vs TT... And then it hit me.

In TT, getting a weapon that alters your dice rolls by TWO on 2d6 is frankly, amazing and THATS why they are two extra tons more then a normal IS LL. Having that bonus on a 4/5 pilot is JUST as good as having it on a 2/3....the 2/3 pilot will just be able to pull of some more amazing manuevers/shots more often.

However, in MWO we dont see NEARLY the utility of -2 to hit on LPLs with the current stat line. Not NEARLY. In order to approximate just how good that -2 bonus is, LPLS would have do to 12-15 damage. You cant change the crits, or the weight, so the only things to play with are damage, heat, beam duration, cooldown and range.....messing with cooldown and beam duration just rob peter to pay paul, and range seems kinda set in as well..... So either the damage needs to go 2-3, or the heat needs to go down by 2-3 and possibly, both.

Edited by SpiralRazor, 14 January 2013 - 02:50 PM.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

If you have a lot of hardpoints, regular lasers will usually be better. If you have the spare tonnage and fewer hardpoints, then pulses might be a good choice.

That's how it works for mediums anyway. LPLs are a bit on the hot side and SPLs are... well, not many people use those.

[De La Fresniere]

Small and Large pulse lasers are awful.

Mediums are rather specialized pieces of gear. They do a good deal more damage (20% more) and can be fired a bit more often, plus if you suck at lasers you'll enjoy not having to keep them on your target for long.

However, they have huge drawbacks. They weigh double, you lose 33.3% range, you generate 25% more heat per shot, you lose damage if you start your shot a bit off because you have less time to correct your angle...

The vast majority of loadouts will do better with regular Mediums. But for a close-range mech with tonnage to spare and no heat issues, it might very well do better with MPLs.

[Pr8Dator]

I run a triple LPL Fang and chain fire the LPL for almost continuous pew pew. Not great especially when it comes time for the killing blow which will usually overheat you and yet not make the kill. Its fun though. Currently, I would prefer 3 large lasers with an SRM6 for the same tonnage than 3 LPL. That gives you a better alpha for the killing blow and generates far lesser heat so you last longer in a brawl without having to lay off the firing button, resulting in higher effective DPS overall.

Edited by Pr8Dator, 14 January 2013 - 03:01 PM.

[Sug]

Adrienne Vorton, on 14 January 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

pulse lasers ,,,, have a higher critical chance...

Gotta explain that for me.

If you're thinking they have a higher crit chance because they "pulse" or deal their damage in ticks with each tick getting a chance to crit I think you're mistaken.

I mean, that IS how they work but regular lasers also deal damage in ticks so I'm not sure if pulse lasers have any advantage over regular lasers as far as critical hits.

[Pr8Dator]

Sug, on 14 January 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

Gotta explain that for me.

If you're thinking they have a higher crit chance because they "pulse" or deal their damage in ticks with each tick getting a chance to crit I think you're mistaken.

I mean, that IS how they work but regular lasers also deal damage in ticks so I'm not sure if pulse lasers have any advantage over regular lasers as far as critical hits.

it does as each pulse counts as an individual hit while regular lasers count as one DOT hit.

But I won't say crit seeking is that big a deal. How many times have we ourselves gotten the critical hit warning only to see that nothing actually happened? The only time crits seem to do anything is against gauss rifles. Other than that, I won't really focus on critical hits.

Edited by Pr8Dator, 14 January 2013 - 03:07 PM.

[Sug]

De La Fresniere, on 14 January 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

Small and Large pulse lasers are awful.

The weight of LPLs kills them. If they weighed 5 tons instead of 7 they'd be good. : /

De La Fresniere, on 14 January 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

However, they have huge drawbacks. They weigh double, you lose 33.3% range, you generate 25% more heat per shot, you lose damage if you start your shot a bit off because you have less time to correct your angle...

Range lost is closer to 20%. MPLs do as much damage (5) at 210m as regular lasers do at 270m. 60m is almost insignificant.

The extra heat can almost be entirely negated by using double heat sinks.

Pr8Dator, on 14 January 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

it does as each pulse counts as an individual hit while regular lasers count as one DOT hit.

I will look for the post where a Dev explains that regular lasers do their damage in ticks with each tick getting a chance to crit.

Yay search function

Edit: Closest thing i could find so far

http://mwomercs.com/...ts-from-lasers/

Edit: David Bradley. About halfway down the page.

http://mwomercs.com/...us/page__st__40

Edited by Sug, 14 January 2013 - 04:04 PM.

[General Taskeen]

Pulse lasers have been "meh" in every Mech title except Mech Warrior 2 and MW:LL. Gimme the fun pulse lasers that shoot like MG's or ballistics with the near instant hit of a laser.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Here is my biggest issue with LPL

In past MechWarrior games, Pulse Lasers have always had a different firing mechanic than the normal Beam Lasers.
In MW:O, they are literally the same thing, except heavier, less range and a shorter beam duration.

As it stands, Pulse Lasers are only worth taking if you have a few extra tons and you want a little bit more damage from your current Medium Lasers. Small Pulse and Large Pulse are grossly underpowered. Granted, you can still do decent damage with either over time, but the cost to heat and huge lack of range on the Large Pulse for the cost of 7 tons is never worth taking over a normal Large Beam Laser due to its significantly less heat, more range and less tonnage.

Now, PGI has stated they are looking over heat values for the PPC, ERPPC, ER Large Laser, and Large Pulse Laser. But one suggestion hinted they may do to the ER Large Laser is reduce the beam duration to make it more accurate at range and reduce its heat. Regardless what they do to the Large Pulse Laser at that point, the ER Large Laser will be 100% better in all regards. It will weigh 2 tons less, produce similar heat and have more than double its effective range!

So here is what I'm suggesting they do, radically change the mechanic of the Pulse Lasers entirely.

Lets get some facts straight so when I attempt to explain the proposed changes its more easier to understand.

Large Pulse Lasers right now in game have the same exact fire mechanic as normal beam lasers do. The only difference is a different sound and beam animation with a shorter duration. Whoop-dee-doo

For the record, how both versions of lasers work is they deal a miniscule amount of damage and fire like 30 or so times to give the allusion that its a continuous burn damage. See below pictures for clarity.

Medium Laser burn


Pulse Laser burn


As you can see from the screen shots, the damage spread and fire mechanic is exactly the same, albeit the pulse lasers perform that action over .75 seconds as opposed to over 1 for a normal beam (Small Lasers are .75 while sPulse are .5). While on paper this provides that mPulse can deliver a much higher damage over time, but it still makes the weapons very unappealing, especially when dealing with the Large Laser family.

In Canon, the advantage Pulse Lasers have over standard Beam Lasers are higher accuracy and are described as almost "laser machine guns". I think they also received like a +1 hit modifier (I don't play TT, so the best I can say is that they are easier to aim with). So, my proposed changes to Pulse Lasers are to instead hold the spirit of the canon described weapon and do exactly that!

Change how the Pulse Lasers fire mechanic works! Its not a horribly radical change. For instance, those of you who have used the Large Pulse Laser before know that crazy dub-step pulsing sound. Wub-Wub-Wub-Wub-Wub. Sounds pretty badass. Hell the animation even flashes like 5 or so times, and the damage of the weapon totals 10? Well, what I'm saying is, lets hold true to the spirit of the weapon in canon, and reflect that animation. Make it actually work like its described in Canon and how the animation looks in game.

Here is how it would work. For the Large Pulse Laser, break the fire beam down into 5 different bursts of upfront direct damage dealing 2 damage each. These bursts all take place over that .75 second duration. There! Done! Its that easy. The laser now feels like a "laser machine gun", it acts how its animation works, and it gains that nebulous +1 accuracy modifier that made it so appealing in the TT. Apply the same logic to the Medium and Small Pulse Laser. The Medium would fire ~4 bursts of 1.25 damage (to total the current 6 damage) over the .75, and the Small Pulse would deliver ~3 bursts dealing 1 damage (to total the 3 current damage).

Sure the Large Pulse Laser could use a range buff, and the Dev's have already stated they would look at the heat values, but this change would make it a MUCH more appealing choice and make the Pulse Lasers feel much more unique, too!

Edited by mwhighlander, 14 January 2013 - 03:22 PM.

[De La Fresniere]

Sug, on 14 January 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

[/size]
Range lost is closer to 20%.

The extra heat can almost be entirely negated by using double heat sinks.

Of course the higher damage compensates for the range loss somewhat, and it's good for newer players to realize that they can still do decent damage beyond their weapon's base range. But for that same damage at 210m, you're still paying the double weight and higher heat. If you look at advantages and drawbacks individually you can't start factoring them into each other. In the absolute, it deals 20% more damage but has 33.3% less range and 25% more heat and double the weight, with everything that those things imply. At 210m, an ML costs 1 ton and deals 5 damage for 4 heat while an MPL costs 2 tons and deals 5 damage for 5 heat. You're still way better off with MLs.

Same with heat. Extra heat is extra heat, it can be compensated for but it'll cost you something (more weight and/or crit space) that you wouldn't have to worry about with regular Mediums.

I really don't like pulse lasers... even the Mediums, and those are the only ones that are anywhere near approaching reason.

[Adrienne Vorton]

Sug, on 14 January 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

Gotta explain that for me.

If you're thinking they have a higher crit chance because they "pulse" or deal their damage in ticks with each tick getting a chance to crit I think you're mistaken.

I mean, that IS how they work but regular lasers also deal damage in ticks so I'm not sure if pulse lasers have any advantage over regular lasers as far as critical hits.

afaik ( i believe i read it in some table a while ago) every single "tick" has a higher % chance for a crit on a pulse laser... but as i say, it´s been a while ago, i could be wrong or outdated

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Adrienne Vorton, on 14 January 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

afaik ( i believe i read it in some table a while ago) every single "tick" has a higher % chance for a crit on a pulse laser... but as i say, it´s been a while ago, i could be wrong or outdated

That higher % for a crit is false information.

[SpammyV]

I've got a question about Pulses: Do you think that equipping MPLs as an anti-Light weapon is a good tactic for heavier chassis? Since they deal their damage in a shorter time frame would that make it easier to put the damage on a Light mech that's circling around and pecking you to death, rather than having to try to drag your laser fire over it?

[Solis Obscuri]

MPLs do a nice job of concentrating damage. I use them on some builds, depending on how many energy hardpoints vs. weight I have available.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

SpammyV, on 14 January 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

I've got a question about Pulses: Do you think that equipping MPLs as an anti-Light weapon is a good tactic for heavier chassis? Since they deal their damage in a shorter time frame would that make it easier to put the damage on a Light mech that's circling around and pecking you to death, rather than having to try to drag your laser fire over it?

Yes and no. While it would be slightly easier to get the majority of the damage on the target (for instance using LPL's over LL's), but the problem is that the pulse lasers produce a significantly higher amount of heat at a higher tonnage, meaning you may not be able to equip as many heatsinks as you would need to keep cool enough to fire as many shots as you need to kill the light.

So long answer short. No. Use normal lasers with mucho heat sinks.

[SpiralRazor]

Pr8Dator, on 14 January 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

it does as each pulse counts as an individual hit while regular lasers count as one DOT hit.

But I won't say crit seeking is that big a deal. How many times have we ourselves gotten the critical hit warning only to see that nothing actually happened? The only time crits seem to do anything is against gauss rifles. Other than that, I won't really focus on critical hits.

This isnt true. Both types of laser do there damage in pulses...however the actual pulse lasers pulses are a bit faster(beam duration) and deal more damage per pulse(damage per activation).

Edited by SpiralRazor, 14 January 2013 - 03:41 PM.