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Change The Mechanic Of Pulse Lasers!


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#1 80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:28 PM

Here is my biggest issue with LPL

In past MechWarrior games, Pulse Lasers have always had a different firing mechanic than the normal Beam Lasers.

In MW:O, they are literally the same thing, except heavier, less range and a shorter beam duration.

As it stands, Pulse Lasers are only worth taking if you have a few extra tons and you want a little bit more damage from your current Medium Lasers. Small Pulse and Large Pulse are grossly underpowered. Granted, you can still do decent damage with either over time, but the cost to heat and huge lack of range on the Large Pulse for the cost of 7 tons is never worth taking over a normal Large Beam Laser due to its significantly less heat, more range and less tonnage.

Now, PGI has stated they are looking over heat values for the PPC, ERPPC, ER Large Laser, and Large Pulse Laser. But one suggestion hinted they may do to the ER Large Laser is reduce the beam duration to make it more accurate at range and reduce its heat. Regardless what they do to the Large Pulse Laser at that point, the ER Large Laser will be 100% better in all regards. It will weigh 2 tons less, produce similar heat and have more than double its effective range!

So here is what I'm suggesting they do, radically change the mechanic of the Pulse Lasers entirely.

Lets get some facts straight so when I attempt to explain the proposed changes its more easier to understand.

Large Pulse Lasers right now in game have the same exact fire mechanic as normal beam lasers do. The only difference is a different sound and beam animation with a shorter duration. Whoop-dee-doo

For the record, how both versions of lasers work is they deal a miniscule amount of damage and fire like 30 or so times to give the allusion that its a continuous burn damage. See below pictures for clarity.

Medium Laser burn
Posted Image
Pulse Laser burn
Posted Image
As you can see from the screen shots, the damage spread and fire mechanic is exactly the same, albeit the pulse lasers perform that action over .75 seconds as opposed to over 1 for a normal beam (Small Lasers are .75 while sPulse are .5). While on paper this provides that mPulse can deliver a much higher damage over time, but it still makes the weapons very unappealing, especially when dealing with the Large Laser family.

In Canon, the advantage Pulse Lasers have over standard Beam Lasers are higher accuracy and are described as almost "laser machine guns". I think they also received like a +1 hit modifier (I don't play TT, so the best I can say is that they are easier to aim with). So, my proposed changes to Pulse Lasers are to instead hold the spirit of the canon described weapon and do exactly that!

Change how the Pulse Lasers fire mechanic works! Its not a horribly radical change. For instance, those of you who have used the Large Pulse Laser before know that crazy dub-step pulsing sound. Wub-Wub-Wub-Wub-Wub. Sounds pretty badass. Hell the animation even flashes like 5 or so times, and the damage of the weapon totals 10? Well, what I'm saying is, lets hold true to the spirit of the weapon in canon, and reflect that animation. Make it actually work like its described in Canon and how the animation looks in game.

Here is how it would work. For the Large Pulse Laser, break the fire beam down into 5 different bursts of upfront direct damage dealing 2 damage each. These bursts all take place over that .75 second duration. There! Done! Its that easy. The laser now feels like a "laser machine gun", it acts how its animation works, and it gains that nebulous +1 accuracy modifier that made it so appealing in the TT. Apply the same logic to the Medium and Small Pulse Laser. The Medium would fire ~4 bursts of 1.25 damage (to total the current 6 damage) over the .75, and the Small Pulse would deliver ~3 bursts dealing 1 damage (to total the 3 current damage).

Sure the Large Pulse Laser could use a range buff, and the Dev's have already stated they would look at the heat values, but this change would make it a MUCH more appealing choice and make the Pulse Lasers feel much more unique, too!

Edited by mwhighlander, 14 January 2013 - 03:28 PM.


#2 BerryChunks

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:52 PM

They cant screw with the heat mechanics of PPCs and Large lasers without completely destroying game balance.

They can, however, look into THEIR BASE HEAT GEN/DISSIPATION equations, becauise something THERE is what is definitely off, even if they don't want to admit it and nerf heat because of boats.

Boats only exist because they are allowed to exist via too many hardpoints. They need to balance mechs by that BEFORE balancing it by destroying tried and true values of balance for weapons.

How do I know heat itself is broken? Because there are stock variants that are supposed to be able to fire continuously without overheating, yet they do in MWO. Because 2 medium lasers being fired continuously should not overheat a 16 heatsink mech, yet they do.


They destroyed heat balance to try to stop boating, which was a terrible idea and they should feel bad for that idea.

Edited by BerryChunks, 14 January 2013 - 07:55 PM.


#3 Strum Wealh

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:07 AM

Quote

I think they also received like a +1 hit modifier (I don't play TT, so the best I can say is that they are easier to aim with).


"P: Pulse Weapon. Apply a –2 to-hit modifi er to all weapon attacks. This weapon type can use a targeting computer when making attacks, except for aimed shots (see Targeting Computer, p. 143)." (Total Warfare, pg. 113)

"Pulse and Rapid-Fire Weapons: Pulse and rapid-fire weapons may not use a targeting computer to make an aimed shot, unless a rapid-fire weapon is firing a single shot, in which case it can make an aimed shot as described above." (Total Warfare, pg. 143)

The to-hit bonus meant that one is more likely to hit what one was aiming at, and had different meanings for different weapons (e.g. the to-hit modifier for a LB-X represents something slightly different from that of a RAC, which is in turn represents something different from that of the Streak missiles, and so on).

In the case of Pulse Lasers, it sounds as though they, somewhat like the rapid-fire RACs, get their to-hit bonus from firing rapidly, thus ensuring that they are more likely to hit due to the amount of ordnance (insomuch as a laser beam is "ordnance") in the air.
That pulse lasers cannot make use of Targeting Computers to make an aimed shot (basically, a sniper shot) but can gain an additional to-hit bonus from general use would suggest that they're not overly accurate - that is, there would be some spread (and, thus, inherent inaccuracy) that evidently makes them unsuitable for true sniper work, but a Targeting Computer (or improving one's Gunnery skill) are among the things that can help to ensure that the spread is generally more likely to hit the target.

#4 General Taskeen

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:34 PM

MW4

LPL 2.62 Damage 1.75 Recycle
MPL 0.60 Damage .75 Recycle
SPL 0.15 Damage .25 Recycle

MW3 (uses a pulse discharge mechanic, fire the full discharge and the weapon locks in a 3.5 second recycle)

LPL up to 11 Damage for full discharge 3.5 Recycle
MPL up to 8 Damage for full discharge 3.5 Recycle
SPL up to 6 Damage for full discharge 3.5 Recycle

** Pulse Laser recycle times are calculated from firing, through full discharge, to refire. The recycle time can be greatly shortened by not allowing the weapon to fully discharge

^ Basically if you pay attention to the pulse discharge bar, you can fire pulse lasers non-stop until over heat, since they basically have less than a 1 second between each pulse fired

MW:LL uses similar 3 pulse as MWO, except they recycle a lot quicker (X-Pulse are continuous fire in that game)

For MWO, since they rarely change the damage values for some reason, they could be like this:


LPL 10 Damage 2.25 Cool Down
MPL 6 Damage 2 Cool Down
SPL 3 Damage 1.25 Cool Down

Nearly doubling DPS, which is fine, if heat is left where it is. Lots of damage for mega-heat if fired continously.

Or go with something that combines aspects of other titles, making them very fast firing or a discharge mechanic (MW3 style). Damage would have to be adjusted accordingly.

LPL (11 Total Damage) 2.75 Damage Per Single Pulse with 0.75 Cooldown - Full Discharge 3.5 Second Cool Down
MPL (8 Total Damage) 2 Damage Per Single Pulse with 0.75 " - Full Discharge 3.5 "
SPL (6 Total Damage) 1.5 Damage Per Single Pulse with 0.75 " - Full Discharge 3.5 "

(Discharge is given its own 'cool down' meter, showing how long a full pulse can be sustained)
(Adjust heat accordingly)

#5 focuspark

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:50 PM

Now you all realize that lasers apply many smaller hits now, right? Not all of their damage is delivered to a single location, instead it's something like 10 smaller hits of 10% damage spread out over the 1 second pulse time.

My suggestion to make Pulse Weapons more interesting:
http://mwomercs.com/...re-interesting/

#6 Capt Cole 117

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 08:14 PM

The current implementation of pulse lasers make them inferior to normal lasers. They weigh twice as much, have greatly reduced range, generate more heat, and the damage increase is minimal. Instead of switching from standard to pulse lasers, use the weight to get SRMs or more AC ammo, or even a larger engine. There is no situation where I'd chose pulse lasers over standard lasers.

If you don’t believe me you can see the stats for yourself here:
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/#weapon_beam

#7 80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:07 AM

View PostCapt Cole 117, on 19 January 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

The current implementation of pulse lasers make them inferior to normal lasers. They weigh twice as much, have greatly reduced range, generate more heat, and the damage increase is minimal.


Which is exactly why they need a new firing mechanic to make them unique. The devs have stated that they may make the ERLL have less heat and a shorter burn time. Such a change would utterly kill off any significance the LPL would ever play, making it so vastly inferior that under zero circumstance (even now its rare you would ever want one) would it ever be a good idea to use it. Hell, right now the SPL is suffer the same fate when compared to a mLas.

They need to be reworked to give them significance, not just a heavier, hotter, shorter range version of normal beam laser.

#8 Adrienne Vorton

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:38 AM

i love my medium pulses, don´t dare to touch em :)

#9 Attalward

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 04:25 AM

I would love to have lasers machineguns.

If you dont know how cool they are. Here si a video of a gatling laser from Fallout: NewVegas

Just susbstitue the bland sound with the awesome WoopWoop from MWO ( and slower rate of fire)



#10 Wolf Ender

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:19 PM

i would love to see some experimentation done with the idea of changing pulse lasers to have properties similar to ballistics weapons, with 100% damage to one location, impulse on impact (ie. knock you around), and basically make them act a lot like how ACs behave, trading lots of extra heat generation in exchange for weight savings and no ammo.

might be interesting to see how people would use such a mechanic.

i also like some of the ideas others have posted, but i think in general i agree with most that the pulse lasers as currently implemented don't provide enough extra damage to justify the added heat and weight.

something needs to be done to give them a little more utility...this could be done by simply tweaking the heat / recycle times/ damage / weight, or other stats... but it's a ho-hum solution... a much more interesting and compelling idea would be to fundamentally change how they work... although it would have to be tested and we may find that might not even be a viable solution after all.

#11 focuspark

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 08:32 PM

I've always thought of Pulse Lasers as more like laser machine guns and standard lasers more like how ballistics work.

#12 80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:49 PM

Bumping this.

Now that more poeple are using LPL, maybe they can understand more why Pulse Lasers are always going to be sub-par in thier current firing mechanic.

#13 Raso

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:26 PM

Yeah this is a great idea. It wont't make them perfect weapons but it will help give them more of a unique feel! I'm glad I thought of it! :lol:





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