66 replies to this topic

[BerryChunks]

If you grind the hours needed to get something in WoW instead of RMT it;
If you grind the house needed to get the Cbills together to buy "double cost" variants that have superior slotting, or even "hero mechs" that sometimes have the best hardpoint slotting in the game;

You're effectively spending time working at something for pennies on the dollar.

How much do RMT chinese gold farmers make when playing WoW or some other game to sell items to other people? 15 cents an hour? 1 dollar an hour? Economically speaking, for a person in a different country (like the U.S.) to do the same, they're deflating their own labor value.

A person who spends 40 hours to grind something that they could buy with 5 dollars is essentially saying that their effort is worth 80 cents an hour. On the other hand, in F2P models where buying in game items is actually "legal" to the game developers, working for just 1 hour at a job can get you the item you want, give you a few dollars left over, AND GIVE YOU 39 HOURS of your life.

I've heard a multitude of excuses from people over the years for not paying real money. "I want to feel like I earned it". "I enjoy the journey". "Im cooler because I got it myself".

Such flimsy arguments are meant to protect their egos from the reality that they spent much of their life time, which you CANNOT trade back for, ever, in pursuit of goals that have the effect of impoverishing you.

Consider it this way instead. Assume that in a 40 hour span you could make 320 dollars, at least. Now, instead of making 320 dollars, you are "making" 5 dollars by having that item. If we reverse this equation, you're paying 315 dollars to have it, except neither the company that owns the game you're playing, nor you, are making any real money.

I've seen plenty of people do this. This isn't like some tangible benefit that will exist, even after it's over. It's not doing hobby experiments with real world objects that you sink money into, that end up providing some educational benefit which can help you down the road. It's just air. It's like taking 315 dollars and setting it on fire.

The people who do these mental gymnastics to validate their behavior are similar to drug or gambling addicts.

As gaming becomes more mainstream, more and more people will behave like that. What happens when enough people opt to "make" 1 dollar an hour or less, in theoretical terms, compared to actually working and buying their hobby (a game) without investing massive quantities of time in it? Localized impoverishment. What happens when enough places in a nation become locally impoverished? Massive impoverishment.

It's no Coincidence that we're having a "recession" in the U.S. that's on par with the "great depression", at the same time we are seeing a massive upswing in MMO playing.

The Chinese beat us, my friends. They saw what the U.S. was allowing to happen, and that's why they instituted the legal restriction of gameplay time on MMO's. The Chinese aren't stupid. They have market analysts and sociologists just as much as the next country. When people see a country take a technology that's very new, and make LAWS that seem to make no sense, we should ask ourselves what those laws are telling US about what THEY are observing in other countries.

[Tennex]

we are all willing prisoners

you think the rat getting dopamine into his brain wants to leave his cage. heck no he'd willingly die of starvation

Edited by Tennex, 14 January 2013 - 08:38 PM.

[CommieKazie]

Very well said BerryChunks!

[De La Fresniere]

I recently bought a game for 15 dollars. It took me over 50 hours to finish. If I could have paid 5 dollars to get the winning screen right away... I wouldn't have.

Why?

Because it's a game.

You play it. That's what it's *for*.

It doesn't earn money. It earns fun. It's called entertainment. It's what we do when we're not working. It's what makes life worth living.

...

Did you like your own post again?

[PANZERBUNNY]

BerryChunks, on 14 January 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

If you grind the hours needed to get something in WoW instead of RMT it;
If you grind the house needed to get the Cbills together to buy "double cost" variants that have superior slotting, or even "hero mechs" that sometimes have the best hardpoint slotting in the game;

You're effectively spending time working at something for pennies on the dollar.

How much do RMT chinese gold farmers make when playing WoW or some other game to sell items to other people? 15 cents an hour? 1 dollar an hour? Economically speaking, for a person in a different country (like the U.S.) to do the same, they're deflating their own labor value.

A person who spends 40 hours to grind something that they could buy with 5 dollars is essentially saying that their effort is worth 80 cents an hour. On the other hand, in F2P models where buying in game items is actually "legal" to the game developers, working for just 1 hour at a job can get you the item you want, give you a few dollars left over, AND GIVE YOU 39 HOURS of your life.

I've heard a multitude of excuses from people over the years for not paying real money. "I want to feel like I earned it". "I enjoy the journey". "Im cooler because I got it myself".

Such flimsy arguments are meant to protect their egos from the reality that they spent much of their life time, which you CANNOT trade back for, ever, in pursuit of goals that have the effect of impoverishing you.

Consider it this way instead. Assume that in a 40 hour span you could make 320 dollars, at least. Now, instead of making 320 dollars, you are "making" 5 dollars by having that item. If we reverse this equation, you're paying 315 dollars to have it, except neither the company that owns the game you're playing, nor you, are making any real money.

I've seen plenty of people do this. This isn't like some tangible benefit that will exist, even after it's over. It's not doing hobby experiments with real world objects that you sink money into, that end up providing some educational benefit which can help you down the road. It's just air. It's like taking 315 dollars and setting it on fire.

The people who do these mental gymnastics to validate their behavior are similar to drug or gambling addicts.

As gaming becomes more mainstream, more and more people will behave like that. What happens when enough people opt to "make" 1 dollar an hour or less, in theoretical terms, compared to actually working and buying their hobby (a game) without investing massive quantities of time in it? Localized impoverishment. What happens when enough places in a nation become locally impoverished? Massive impoverishment.

It's no Coincidence that we're having a "recession" in the U.S. that's on par with the "great depression", at the same time we are seeing a massive upswing in MMO playing.

The Chinese beat us, my friends. They saw what the U.S. was allowing to happen, and that's why they instituted the legal restriction of gameplay time on MMO's. The Chinese aren't stupid. They have market analysts and sociologists just as much as the next country. When people see a country take a technology that's very new, and make LAWS that seem to make no sense, we should ask ourselves what those laws are telling US about what THEY are observing in other countries.

Because I prefer to play the game and enjoy the journey while playing it and it never feels like a job?

That's why I don't dump money so freely on these F2P games. You get better through playing and experience instead of buying your way to the "top".

[DrSecretStache]

There is the part about fun.

And there's a problem with this line of reasoning. Yes, you could be working instead of playing video games, but assuming that you aren't taking time off of work to play video games, the opportunity cost is null, unless you usually take overtime.

Free time is time spent however one wills it.

Also, keep in mind, if this country could limit the time spent on MMOs, then it could regulate a whole hell of a lot more then it probably should be able to.

You have a good point in there, but I think it just misses the part that people enjoy spending their time on things that keep their attention.

[Wolf Ender]

thank God i don't live in a country where the government regulates how much time I am allowed to spend on the computer.

[twibs]

Let me get this straight, you'd pay 10$ to see a movie but 15$ just to see the end credits?

[HighlandCoo]

This is all very subjective. No one is putting a gun to anyones head and forcing them to pay or too play. If you want to pay, go ahead no one is stopping you.

Personally I like countries that don't go around telling everyone what they can and cannot do with every second of their lives. Go figure. Not everything is about your countries GDP you know.

[Voidsinger]

I've notice BerryChunks that you never really have much positive to say about the game.

Also that you like your own posts.

On topic though, the aim of the game is to play, not accumulate. Different people use different indicators of how they are progressing in the game. One indicator (and most important) is the FUN indicator, how you are enjoying the game. For others it is K/D ratio, or W/L. Yet others may use how many mechs they own (I own 41 btw, and rising). My goal is skills, to be skilled in every mech (38 totally mastered and rising despite the 32 mech bug).

Things that can be bought with cash are the worst indicator for a game (except the game company). I heartily applaud PGI for not having a grey economy of mech accounts, and forbidding account selling.

[Corvus Antaka]

Like Sun Tzu said, the best way to defeat your enemy is without fighting

[Mycrus]

Two sides of the coin

While playing i don't get the urge to wolf down a burger - so im actually dieting

[MasterGoa]

Breaking News: MWO is a JOB!

What a ridiculous stance to have...

[BerryChunks]

twibs, on 14 January 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Let me get this straight, you'd pay 10$ to see a movie but 15$ just to see the end credits?

Not at all. I pay for content.This isnt the same thing. You can "unlock" that content faster, and play with it sooner, instead of "grinding" to unlock it.

I'd like you to explain how playing the same thing over and over to finally unlock objects is similar to a linear story that has a beginning, middle, and end, where no one moment is the same as the one that came before it, unlike MMOs.

Edited by BerryChunks, 14 January 2013 - 09:11 PM.

[TheMadTypist]

But I play games in my free time- the time that by very definition, I'm not earning money in anyway. If it wasn't mechwarrior, it would be another game instead. It's not a choice between making x amount or playing y amount, it's a choice between playing a videogame or reading bad science-fiction novels or going to a movie or napping. Time invested in any particular game is time I'd be goofing off anyway.

Mark it down to a cultural difference. Not everyone feels pressured to insistently spend their free time improving their net worth for the good of the state.

[Voidsinger]

Mycrus, on 14 January 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

Two sides of the coin

While playing i don't get the urge to wolf down a burger - so im actually dieting

Hey, somebody else!

Since I joined the CB, I've lost 12 kilograms, 14% of body mass on what I previously was. My doctor heartily approves of MWO since it keeps the mind active, which helps the body stay active.

Now if they'd only reimplement collisions (sensibly this time), so I could do the death express runs among enemy mechs in a commando. No fun right now.

[LethalRose]

BerryChunks, on 14 January 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

It's no Coincidence that we're having a "recession" in the U.S. that's on par with the "great depression", at the same time we are seeing a massive upswing in MMO playing.

Single stupidest thing that I have ever read on these forums. I hope you are trolling.

[HighlandCoo]

It's offical - video games cause recession. You heard it here first!

[Gorith]

Firstly to believe that MMOs are leading to mass impoverishment is silly at best. This is a hobby the gains we get from are not meant to be fiscal but logical and emotional engagement. Humans need more than just money to lead a healthy life. Your argument assumes we should be working all day every day with very little time to relax as any time spent on personal enjoyment is time that according to you would be better spent earning money.

So according to you anyone who goes to the movies or reads a book is leading to even more impoverishment in their local area?... you sir are an *****

[Coole]

BerryChunks, on 14 January 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

If you grind the hours needed to get something in WoW instead of RMT it;
If you grind the house needed to get the Cbills together to buy "double cost" variants that have superior slotting, or even "hero mechs" that sometimes have the best hardpoint slotting in the game;

You're effectively spending time working at something for pennies on the dollar.

How much do RMT chinese gold farmers make when playing WoW or some other game to sell items to other people? 15 cents an hour? 1 dollar an hour? Economically speaking, for a person in a different country (like the U.S.) to do the same, they're deflating their own labor value.

A person who spends 40 hours to grind something that they could buy with 5 dollars is essentially saying that their effort is worth 80 cents an hour. On the other hand, in F2P models where buying in game items is actually "legal" to the game developers, working for just 1 hour at a job can get you the item you want, give you a few dollars left over, AND GIVE YOU 39 HOURS of your life.

I've heard a multitude of excuses from people over the years for not paying real money. "I want to feel like I earned it". "I enjoy the journey". "Im cooler because I got it myself".

Such flimsy arguments are meant to protect their egos from the reality that they spent much of their life time, which you CANNOT trade back for, ever, in pursuit of goals that have the effect of impoverishing you.

Consider it this way instead. Assume that in a 40 hour span you could make 320 dollars, at least. Now, instead of making 320 dollars, you are "making" 5 dollars by having that item. If we reverse this equation, you're paying 315 dollars to have it, except neither the company that owns the game you're playing, nor you, are making any real money.

I've seen plenty of people do this. This isn't like some tangible benefit that will exist, even after it's over. It's not doing hobby experiments with real world objects that you sink money into, that end up providing some educational benefit which can help you down the road. It's just air. It's like taking 315 dollars and setting it on fire.

The people who do these mental gymnastics to validate their behavior are similar to drug or gambling addicts.

As gaming becomes more mainstream, more and more people will behave like that. What happens when enough people opt to "make" 1 dollar an hour or less, in theoretical terms, compared to actually working and buying their hobby (a game) without investing massive quantities of time in it? Localized impoverishment. What happens when enough places in a nation become locally impoverished? Massive impoverishment.

It's no Coincidence that we're having a "recession" in the U.S. that's on par with the "great depression", at the same time we are seeing a massive upswing in MMO playing.

The Chinese beat us, my friends. They saw what the U.S. was allowing to happen, and that's why they instituted the legal restriction of gameplay time on MMO's. The Chinese aren't stupid. They have market analysts and sociologists just as much as the next country. When people see a country take a technology that's very new, and make LAWS that seem to make no sense, we should ask ourselves what those laws are telling US about what THEY are observing in other countries.

Aren't you forgetting the law of maximum satisfaction? You make a good case pointing out that people are deflating themselves to 80 cents an hour. However, if the time is enjoyable, and if they were going to enjoy it whether they spent the $5 or not, then in reality, they saved themselves $5.
To clarify:
I like MWO. I want a mech that's worth $5 of MC points. Sure I could grind to it and earn enough c-bills, or I could save time and spend $5 (which I have, to spend). But I think to myself, I'm having fun right now. Is $5 really worth to skip out on this level of fun for a different level of fun. Maybe I really enjoy my cataphracts, maybe I wanna master them over time also. So yes, I can skip the cata's, and save time which is far more valuable than $5, but if I'm gonna spend that time enjoying the atlas JUST as much as the cata's, then why would I spend that $5?