233 replies to this topic

[Codejack]

Protoculture, on 15 January 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

Not likely. I had the pleasure of listening to the No Guts No Galaxy podcast that interviews the community manager from the 13th today. It was pretty eye-opening. I learned more about the game direction and Dev preferences from that 1 hour show than from lots and LOTS of forum surfing.

Devs LOVE ecm. Devs HATE Assaults. Devs LOVE lights. Just listen to the podcast and try to "read between the lines" the interview with Garth is very telling despite his inability to answer (most?) questions.

So now the question becomes:

Are they making a game for themselves or are they making a games for everyone else?

The answer to that one is important.

[Jason1138]

so this is the "huge" patch we've all been waiting a month for, huh


i hope whatever game PGI is working on instead of this one makes them a ton of money, because MWO won't be around long if they don't actually produce some content for it

[Pihb]

Hey PGI, its simple. Tweak ecm and fix match making fix the net code. Until then you get nothing more from me. I have given you money in the past but that was my fault and i regret it. Lets see if your founder fanbois (not all founders are fanbois) can keep this joke afloat. You claim you need more time. Guess what? You are running out of time! It might not be fair or reasonable that you have no time but, that's the reality of it. So you can do one of two things. Do what it takes to make a game people want to play. Or you can have another Transformers revenge of the fallen. It's your job, not mine. Do what you will.

[Codejack]

Congzilla, on 15 January 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Lolz, you realize that those changes have to go through internal play testing on every mech / variant that uses them to see how the changes can be used to break things right?

Oh please, they obviously haven't done that for anything else.

[Serapth]

Thontor, on 15 January 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

They are still coming.

No date was given for those changes, so why expect them in any particular patch?

Because it's a beta, they should be trivial changes and we as a community should expect more than a trickle of changes in each patch, especially the "big ones".

[Jason1138]

Congzilla, on 15 January 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Lolz, you realize that those changes have to go through internal play testing on every mech / variant that uses them to see how the changes can be used to break things right?

Implying they play test this stuff is hilarious. That's why they dropped the Phract with a giant cockpit that they had to hotfix on patch day and that's why they dropped the Spider rubberbanding all over the place? because they extensively playtest everything?

ninja please

[Jakob Knight]

Thontor, on 15 January 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

ECM does counter BAP, but it does not counter the sensor range module .. This has been tested in game.

The modules certainly do increase the range at which you can target ECM mechs. With the rank 2 one allowing you to target them at 250m and since you are outside the 180m disruption range you certainly would be able to lock on with missile.

The 200m prohibition on lock ons is documented in the dev notes on ECM, and is what I see in game even with my range increase module. You must provide better proof in documentation than 'This has been tested in game'. Please provide hard documentation from the devs that this is so, or it isn't.

Also, please tell me how 50m of more range matters in mechs that cross that distance inside of 5 seconds, when missiles take 5-10 seconds to hit the target once fired. And, even if it somehow is so, tell me how that range will in any way be important in allowing LRM units to -continuously- fire their weapons throughout the battle. Is the enemy going to be forced to stay inside the 250-180m range the entire time?

No, the whole idea that this is anything more than the devs trying to lie to the players is ludicrous. This amounts to a con job, and I find it especially disturbing anyone would actually think an LRM mech can lock onto an ECM unit under the conditions described. It's either a serious lack of understanding as to the actual gameplay, or active deception to defend a favored piece of equipment for personal gain.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 15 January 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[dilluminati]

Quote

We have been having a blast play testing the Spider on one of our upcoming maps “Alpine” where we managed to fly higher than anything we have seen before.

Great to know you are having a blast on this new map. We, the players, are stagnating on the same 4 maps with some becoming dubious as to your ability to develop and release new maps in a timely fashion. Why even mention it if it's not part of the patch?

I'm looking forward to next month or whenever they finally fix the mg and the netcode.

[Sandslice]

AlexWildeagle, on 15 January 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

The spider configs are kind of messed up. They have the ECM on the variant with the most equipment. 8 JJ, 3 MLs and yet the next variant has 6 JJ 2 MGs and one ML seems underpowered, last variant has 8 JJ with a max of 12 and just 2 ML in the CT. Seems like an odd choice?!?!

How does it have a maximum of 12 jump jets? We don't have IJJ in the game yet, and the 8.5 limit should be in place (limiting Spiders to a 255 engine.) Even without it, a 340 engine is an 11.33 engine ratio, which shouldn't be able to support 12 jump jets.

[Lonestar1771]

I love all the PGI apologists haha. They don't need to make excuses because the White Knight Defense Force™ does it for them.

THE NUMBER ONE WAY TO GET PGI TO EITHER PUT UP OR SHUT UP IS TO STOP PLAYING THIS SORRY EXCUSE OF A GAME.

Edited by Lonestar1771, 15 January 2013 - 12:22 PM.

[Protoculture]

Codejack, on 15 January 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

So now the question becomes:

Are they making a game for themselves or are they making a games for everyone else?

The answer to that one is important.

I think the answer is neither.

I think they're making the game for their investors... Who want their money, as much as possible, right now; everything else be damned.

[G Land]

The real problem to this is that their fixes and changes are coming very slow for this being a closed beta. Internal testing does not need to last quite as long as that is the point of the beta testers.

There is still quite a lot to do before this game is ready for launch (maps, modes, balancing, code fixes, CW) and at their current pace they are looking at a 2014 launch.

[Ghogiel]

This week I will be mostly running a 3L raven with ECM, adv.target decay, adv.sensor range, 360 target retention, target info

gglol

[Strucker]

I see alot of players QQing about another ECM mech, to be honest if you've put up with it till now your in it for the long haul. Atleast this one doesn't have the ability to streak boat.

[Lonestar1771]

Thontor, on 15 January 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

They internally test everything

That doesn't mean they are going to catch everything with that testing.

Can you imagine what the non-tested version would be like? Probably plays like the greatest game ever and then PGI "fixes" it.

[Jason1138]

Thontor, on 15 January 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

They internally test everything

That doesn't mean they are going to catch everything with that testing.

honestly, yes or no, are you saying that you think they tested the phract and didn't catch that its cockpit was so huge?

[Lucky Noob]

Thontor, on 15 January 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

They internally test everything

That doesn't mean they are going to catch everything with that testing.

yeah like the "we all face north"

How can we think there not testing

[Sprouticus]

Pihb, on 15 January 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

Hey PGI, its simple. Tweak ecm and fix match making fix the net code. Until then you get nothing more from me. I have given you money in the past but that was my fault and i regret it. Lets see if your founder fanbois (not all founders are fanbois) can keep this joke afloat. You claim you need more time. Guess what? You are running out of time! It might not be fair or reasonable that you have no time but, that's the reality of it. So you can do one of two things. Do what it takes to make a game people want to play. Or you can have another Transformers revenge of the fallen. It's your job, not mine. Do what you will.

Have you read anything form the command chair in the last 2 days. They address your exact statements.

re: weapons changes, I also believe they should be in by now and am confused by the delay.

netcode and matchmaking are in progres s and might take a while to fully resolve

ECM...well who knows.

[Mordin Ashe]

Posting my opinion now seems like beating a dead horse. You are mean, guys!
Anyway, here is my ,02:
No ECM fixes. No netcode fixes. New mech is nice, but nothing really worth the hype, Jenner still beats it (unless you take the ECM Spider).

I would say yay for the new anti-ecm modules, but I won't. The thing is ECM is fundamentally imbalanced on the level of mountable equipment, you can't balance it with modules which are not really worth researching and buying. Too costly for lousy upgrades, and not really helpfull. +1,5s of having the target visible. Useless. In game nothing can happen in 1,5 seconds. I feel sorry for anyone thinking otherwise.

I was defending MWO for some months now by saying that it doesn't have problems many other games had. I mean those beta issues, problems that are present in the game and noone really cared to do anything about them. But now I must say MWO has its first of such issues, and that is ECM. It fits the typical pattern of such problem. It is here, been long time unchanged (all tweaks to ECM were laughable and didn't change a thing on how ECM screws the battle, devs considering this a tweak means serious gap between community expectations and devs expectations), developers are defending the current design with rather unsatisfactory arguments. It doesn't fit the original game frame (TT rules), which may not be a bad thing, but it becomes one once it makes you frustrated. This all is topped by lack of will of devs to discuss this problem. And even though this problem is not entirely ignored, all current attempts to fix it are done on different level than the original problem. Todays new modules are shining example of that.
Seen it more than dozen times by now. Fedball in STO beta (and klingon glass cannons before that), arty in WoT beta, Type59 packs after WoT release, OP fighters in early days of BSG online. You name it. All those annoying errors in game design don't fit any particular purpose, it is just a consequence of wrong decisions in game design that somehow happened. It is also sad because all those beta issues usually last long after the launch and are adresses in major overhauls regarding feedback from new launch players. It means ECM is probably here to stay for a long time, and that feels wrong.

TL, DR:
Disappointed. A lot.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Aim at and kill ecm mechs, make smart decisions in the mech lab like.... dont go pure lrm or streak. Ask a mate with ecm, some pub, to counter. Aim at stragglers, unless ecm covers the whole map now? You need to think outside the box Man. Need more anti-ecm solutions? I could put them in list form if you need. Perhaps in crayon? QQing about it on the forums isnt going to get you anywhere RE: ECM, we can all see through your B.S.

Thanks for replying though.