96 replies to this topic

[TehCable]

Bump, because it's been a month since Paul said he already had a statement about ECM written up, and he still hasn't shared it.

http://mwomercs.com/...to-paul-inouye/

[TehCable]

TehCable, on 14 February 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...to-paul-inouye/

...to which he responded by quoting the bit about wanting to confirm two other features first (which was the first thing I mentioned in my open letter) and locking the post.

[Necroconvict]

Maybe he locked the post because he doesn't like you?

[TehCable]

Necroconvict, on 23 February 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

Maybe he locked the post because he doesn't like you?

Should that have anything to do with running a business? Customer service fail. I will not be back.

[Tesunie]

I don't have a problem with ECM, just how it's working right now.

However, I agree with everything else. We need more information and better communication in this game for it to gain effective communication. The newest map, Alpine, is a step in the right direction, forcing groups to communicate, or loose (for the most part). It's such a large map, people have to talk, or you all wander apart (or together), get out capped, and/or picked apart one by one.

We need more effective communication in this game. ECM needs better refinement. But I still have fun, even if some matches are frustrating to play, and then watch after being eaten by a pack.

[BirdToes]

RedShift2K5 said:

I'm willing to bet the two 'other features' are the two anti ECM effects going into the game in the next patch

• PPCs disable ECM briefly
  
• Advanced Sensor Range increases the 'buffer zone'

There's your ECM "counter". Discuss.

[Koshirou]

BirdToes, on 24 February 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

There's your ECM "counter". Discuss.

Okay, I'll open the discussion by the following statement: These "counters" are ineffective and do not address the actual problems.

My impression of said problems, in the most general terms:

ECM is imbalanced because...

- It requires very little resources.
- Its use provides numerous powerful advantages.
- Its use has no disadvantages.

It is furthermore a bad gameplay mechanic because...

- It is a binary counter to an otherwise very powerful gameplay mechanic (LRMs and SSRMs) which should have been balanced in its own right.
- It requires practically no skill to use.
- It can only be used by selecting specific avatars, and thus strongly discourages using any others of comparable role, thus removing variation from the game. Again, this is also quite telling about how unbalanced it is: Because the mechanic is not balanced on its own, arbitrary restrictions are placed on who can use it. (If no such restrictions existed, literally everyone with the ability to customize their avatars would use the mechanic.)
- Some of its effects (disruption of team coordination) can be circumvented by using 3rd party software.

No amount of minor tweaking will fix ECM until these problems are acknowledged.

Edited by Koshirou, 24 February 2013 - 10:58 AM.

[MetalSlug1]

only light mechs should be able to use ecm because they need it and have no armor. Like a real scout uses stealth

[buttmonkey]

i miss the calling out of targets and focus fire too and your right theres enough communication in the game and ecm was a nice thought but a mistake

[Colby Boucher]

Calm down. Command Console and vastly improved BattleGrid is coming.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Revo13, on 15 January 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

Without ECM, or nerfing ECM, would only being back the noob-LRM-boating losers that have no skill!

lrms are pretty easy to avoid, but brawl tards want to run out in splat kats a laugh as they boat away at 75m. If people were put in situations where they had to be verisable, then they would be so. Little maps and bad hard points are a main factor.

[RLBell]

LRM's are a real problem, but ECM is to LRM's what the cane toad is to an australian sugar crop pest. You just have to watch that post of the guy gleefully cheering his 1400 damage point game to realize that LRM's are a problem. But if LRM's are a problem, you fix them-- make them do less damage and/or have fewer missiles per ton. If streaks are a problem, you fix them, too. I like the idea of needing a new lock on each time they are fired.

Maybe if the matchmaker balanced for LRM tubes, ECM on assaults, and ECM on lights and/or Cicadas, ECM would not be such a game breaker.

Making lock-ons an active emission, so anyone on the receiving end of one can detect, target, and lock on to the source, even if it has ECM, will stop the abuse of combining ECM and missiles.

[Haitchpeasauce]

RLBell, on 24 February 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

ECM is to LRM's what the cane toad is to an australian sugar crop pest.

This is true.

LRM and SSRM are the problem here.

Someone explained how SSRM worked in MW:Living Legends ... you had to keep the crosshair on the part of the target you want the SSRM to it. So it still took some skill to keep a full reticule lock on the target! This would work even in the presence of ECM. None of this fire-the-streak-missile-sideways nonsense, no fire and forget.

Make LRM and SSRM actually require some skill and I MIGHT be more agreeable to the presence of ECM.

ECM denies the team information as well. This is quite unfair in PUGs who have no means of communicating, other than typing.

Edited by Haitchpeasauce, 24 February 2013 - 08:44 PM.

[Onyx]

For the poll, I can't really choose an option. I think ECM as a concept makes the game more interesting and fun (read: dynamic) but that its counterplay options are very limited presently. It has no fun counterplay, ergo it's not implemented in a fun fashion, but ECM as a whole adds fun counterplay for lights to effectively fight larger mechs and makes the dynamics of combat more interesting. It just needs some refinement.

Tesunie, on 23 February 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

I don't have a problem with ECM, just how it's working right now.

However, I agree with everything else. We need more information and better communication in this game for it to gain effective communication. The newest map, Alpine, is a step in the right direction, forcing groups to communicate, or loose (for the most part). It's such a large map, people have to talk, or you all wander apart (or together), get out capped, and/or picked apart one by one.

We need more effective communication in this game. ECM needs better refinement. But I still have fun, even if some matches are frustrating to play, and then watch after being eaten by a pack.

I agree. The big thing with ECM is that it's just too strong,for how hard it is to counter. Especially given that the only counterplay for the ECM is PPCs which are hard to land on lights, tha TAG, which only works from outside the range of ECM, and ECM itself. When I can say most of the time, the team with more ECM wins by default, it's pretty stupid. But, as my preface stated, ECM offers a fun mechanic to the game that just needs refinement.

The problem with ECM largely comes down to one and only one thing. 2 weapons are completely negated for one team outright if the other has more ECM than them. LRMs and SSRMs are completely useless if you don't have an ECM advantage (or break even) and that really is a problem.

As for more effective communication, it would be nice if more people actually took up the "commander" roll while playing, but alas...either way, more commanders and command options would really help, including if it forced each pug match to have a commander (who opted in when they queue) to try to enforce coordination. As well as other things like a hotkey to say "Focus fire on X" and such. Perhaps even voice chat and so forth.

[White Bear 84]

White Bear 84, on 15 January 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Once again.. ..isnt ECM working as it is designed to by the devs and isnt the problem not the ECM but the aspects of the game that makes it OP: Streak light builds, no collisions, LAAAAG.. ..imagine the difference once those three are review/fixed - how easy will it be to take out a commando that you trip over and can ACTUALLY hit. SO EASY!

Snap. Right on the spot.

All we need now is collisions back...

[ICEFANG13]

Why do all mechs that can use ECM, use ECM? Its not balanced. Give it to every mech, see how many use it.

[TehCable]

Bumped, because so far as I can tell, completely unaddressed by any dev comments. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. I would love to know where they've discussed this problem anywhere. I am not just referring to ECM specifically, but to any mechanics that affect team communication and cooperation. Also, have they addressed the dead roles of scouting, commanding, etc? Lately, I haven't cared enough to keep searching, and command chair looks silent on these problems.