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Improve Team Communication


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Poll: Is ECM fun? (327 member(s) have cast votes)

Does the inclusion of ECM make MWO more fun overall?

  1. Yes (70 votes [21.34%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 21.34%

  2. Voted No (258 votes [78.66%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 78.66%

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#1 TehCable

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:07 PM

With a heavy heart, this will probably be my last forum post. It's been fun, and I'll miss Mechwarrior.

I have seen no serious effort to improve team communication in a long time, and I think it's a shame. A lot of you have probably played with me on Teamspeak, and I've received a lot of invites to merc corps. This post isn't about butt-hurt over not doing well at the game. My KDR and W/L are good, and I never even cared about stats. This is about the game not being fun for me anymore. What did I enjoy about the game before? Taking command.

I think it's a shame that most of the discussion on ECM has focused on the issue from the wrong angle. Most of the anti-ECM posts that I've seen focus on balance issues, TT, and suggested tweaks. While those concerns are valid, the real reason ECM is bad for the game is that it nukes what little information sharing we had. I used to run solo with pugs sometimes just to strengthen my mini-map awareness. It made me a better player to make sure I always knew where my teammates were and what my positioning should be. I was even able to co-ordinate fairly well with the pugs via text chat, really only lacking a way to designate focus fire targets. Now the mini-map is useless in most fights, and even on teamspeak, focus fire is often impossible because teammates often can't see the target letter that was called.

The bottom line is that the game wasn't ready for ECM because there wasn't enough communication in place to begin with. The C3 integration was botched for one simple reason: there was no way to find other players that were actively using it.

* My first suggestion is to add a lobby text chat so we can find each other for groups based on our own parameters.

* My second suggestion is to add a simple checkbox that says "Match with C3 users only." If pugs could match-up with other mic users, a lot of my gripes would go away very quickly. You're forcing us to either play a very not-fun 8 man group game, or play with pugs. It's not hard to fix it so we can talk to the pugs.

* My third suggestion is to add a way for the player that takes command to designate focus fire targets in a way that highlights them to teammates. It's not enough for a commander to be able to set a location on the map (which, btw, takes way too many clicks, and can't really be done while fighting). Add a single key press that designates the currently selected target as Primary target (and another key press that designates the currently selected target as a secondary target). Friendlies should all see a gold triangle over the primary target instead of a red triangle. The targeting box around it should also turn gold. Some other color could be used to mark secondary targets.

* My final suggestion is to, at least temporarily, pull ECM. It is, IMO, a step in the wrong direction for the game right now. A fun game is one that has multiple competing strategies in use, and ways to co-ordinate those strategies with your team. Since the addition of ECM, I have seen less co-ordination, and I have seen every match reduced to a single strategy: a ball of death where nobody scouts and the team sits scared hoping to have the best numbers on the front line when the enemy is found. That's not fun. For information warfare to be fun, we need MORE information. ECM is a step in the wrong direction because it reduces information.

Again, this isn't about being butt-hurt. I'm not losing matches; I'm just not having nearly as much fun anymore. Pretty much every match is the same now. Each starting position has 1 (some have 2) widely accepted opening moves. If you're on a 4 man team and try to call any other play, you're likely just abandoning your pugs and splitting your team. Once split, ECM makes it nearly impossible to regroup. It's impossible to communicate anything to pugs once the fighting starts because almost no pugs can pay attention to team text chat and fight at the same time.

In conclusion, add features that improve team communication and remove features that destroy team communication. You can't have information warfare without having information to begin with.

Farewell Mechwarrior. I hope your devs stop ignoring the community on ECM, and I hope they manage to turn this information gameplay trend in the other direction while there's still a community interested in the game.

Edited by TehCable, 15 January 2013 - 02:05 PM.


#2 Uzule

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:15 PM

Well written, you will be missed.

#3 Buckminster

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:27 PM

Don't give up entirely, just take a hiatus. That's the point I'm at - maybe 1 in 10 games is "fun". And again, it isn't about winning and losing (because I'm prone to losing), or my KDR (which is horrendous), it's about the fact that there is no enjoyment in losing and dying. I've had one good match in the past two weeks. It was a PUG drop that somehow had no lights in it. Even with a couple ECM Atlases on the board, it was a proper fight - team work, duking it out. But that was one match out of dozens, not enough to make me rush to play some more when I get home.

Theoretically some of the changes that need to be made are deeper in the code and are harder to fix, so while some people may be yelling "why did you give us a Spider when lagshield still sucks", I try to keep in mind that the lagshield team and the mech development team are two different teams, and releasing a new mech is probably *significantly* easier than finding a problem in your root code. So on that theory I'll still loiter around a bit. But I'm certainly not going to play like I was before ECM.

Edited by Buckminster, 15 January 2013 - 01:01 PM.


#4 Codejack

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:57 PM

I'm not far behind you; ECM has just made the game boring.

#5 Umbra8

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:01 PM

I, for one, won't be playing again until they fix or pull ECM. Game just ins't fun anymore. I'll check in again in four or five months, but until then this game won't be getting any more of my money and certainly wont have my recommendation. Congrats PGI, you finally made me regret my founders tag.

#6 StalaggtIKE

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:09 PM

Well said.

As you say, you can not have information warfare without information and ECM destroys information. Really, I would feel very much appeased if the stealth functions of ECM was removed, so that I can designate targets and have access to the target's paperdoll. But instead I am forced to fight blind, while feeling abandoned by my teammates. Oh, no, they didn't leave me! They were right on the other side of that building, but ECM just made them disappear on my minimap. Way to remove the little bit of information and teammwork within the pugs.

Next, you hit on the lack of strategies. Also a nail on the head. Simply put, this game has become nothing more than a brawlerfest. Everyone, meet somewhere in the middle and just blast each other to shreds. That was exciting the first 100 times. Explosions are cool and all, but diversity is what will keep me coming back.
Once I figure out the best "brawler" build and get my aim to where I want to be, I am done. There is no learning curve. /rant

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 15 January 2013 - 01:15 PM.


#7 Mr Rukus

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:25 PM

I think you've forgotten about Missile boats. It's the fact that it forces mechs to either fail horrible or (OH NO!)varry their mech loadouts to different kinds of weapons. I personally really don't like missiles except SRMs, and I find it really helps to counteract missile boats(Except SRMboats). And it a great way to add some tact and strategy. I've never had a problem with it. I still come out top 3 of the match if not #1.

Edited by Mini Rukus, 15 January 2013 - 01:25 PM.


#8 JagdMeister

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:41 PM

Please check out my thread here:

http://mwomercs.com/...e-voip-working/

#9 Gremlich Johns

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:44 PM

I'm boycotting for a week because the in-game year is already time for null-sig/stealth etc, - 3068, and because of ECM coverage for any mechs within the electromagnetic field area. Why use scouts when you can just cloak the unit and saunter in.

#10 Umbra8

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 02:21 PM

View PostMini Rukus, on 15 January 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

I think you've forgotten about Missile boats. It's the fact that it forces mechs to either fail horrible or (OH NO!)varry their mech loadouts to different kinds of weapons. I personally really don't like missiles except SRMs, and I find it really helps to counteract missile boats(Except SRMboats). And it a great way to add some tact and strategy. I've never had a problem with it. I still come out top 3 of the match if not #1.


All that says to me is that you didn't know how to deal with missile boats pre-ecm. I don't remember having any trouble with them (excluding that assinine Artemis patch) except when I did something stupid, like wander into wide open areas with no cover or AMS screen. Which is how it should be, if I get killed for doing something stupid the game is working correctly. Let's also keep in mind that the main counter to boating, the effective use of cover, was available to all mechs for no cost, unlike the current best counter. This is flat out bad game design, and your inability to deal with missiles pre ecm in no way changes that.

#11 Revo13

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 02:34 PM

Without ECM, or nerfing ECM, would only being back the noob-LRM-boating losers that have no skill!

#12 Butane9000

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 02:41 PM

I still can't fathom why they haven't done ANYTHING to ECM since they adjusted it for the worse. It's insane.

#13 White Bear 84

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 03:11 PM

Once again.. ..isnt ECM working as it is designed to by the devs and isnt the problem not the ECM but the aspects of the game that makes it OP: Streak light builds, no collisions, LAAAAG.. ..imagine the difference once those three are review/fixed - how easy will it be to take out a commando that you trip over and can ACTUALLY hit. SO EASY!

#14 Buckminster

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:02 PM

View PostWhite Bear 84, on 15 January 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Once again.. ..isnt ECM working as it is designed to by the devs and isnt the problem not the ECM but the aspects of the game that makes it OP: Streak light builds, no collisions, LAAAAG.. ..imagine the difference once those three are review/fixed - how easy will it be to take out a commando that you trip over and can ACTUALLY hit. SO EASY!

But how are you supposed to knock that Atlas over? The other part of the problem is the giant missile-shielded assault lances, that you can't target and get any sort of info on.

#15 Mr Rukus

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:21 PM

View PostUmbra8, on 15 January 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:


All that says to me is that you didn't know how to deal with missile boats pre-ecm. I don't remember having any trouble with them (excluding that assinine Artemis patch) except when I did something stupid, like wander into wide open areas with no cover or AMS screen. Which is how it should be, if I get killed for doing something stupid the game is working correctly. Let's also keep in mind that the main counter to boating, the effective use of cover, was available to all mechs for no cost, unlike the current best counter. This is flat out bad game design, and your inability to deal with missiles pre ecm in no way changes that.



I never once said I couldn't deal with LRMs. I take pride in not being LRMtarded. I just find it's generally LRM boats who complain about ECM. Never hear bitching about it from Laserboats or Gunboats. Again, ECM came out and I learned how to play around it, effectively. I came out top 3 on average, before ECM, and after. I've just learned that it's an aspect to the game and that it is implemented quite effectively forcing players to varry their mech builds(just like Battletech!), or just to ***** about moan about ECM.

#16 TehCable

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:24 PM

View PostMini Rukus, on 15 January 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Never hear bitching about it from Laserboats or Gunboats.


Then you didn't read the OP on this thread.

#17 Buckminster

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:46 PM

View PostMini Rukus, on 15 January 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:



I never once said I couldn't deal with LRMs. I take pride in not being LRMtarded. I just find it's generally LRM boats who complain about ECM. Never hear bitching about it from Laserboats or Gunboats. Again, ECM came out and I learned how to play around it, effectively. I came out top 3 on average, before ECM, and after. I've just learned that it's an aspect to the game and that it is implemented quite effectively forcing players to varry their mech builds(just like Battletech!), or just to ***** about moan about ECM.

Do you play as part of a group? 8 man? 4 man? Because it seems that the bigger difference in opinion of ECM is whether or not people are playing as part of an organized group and not their weapon choice. As someone that only ever PUGs, I find ECM has too much of an effect.

#18 Mr Rukus

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:46 PM

View PostTehCable, on 15 January 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:


Then you didn't read the OP on this thread.


If you claim to be a gunboat or laserboat you're the first I've seen bitching about ECM. :]

#19 TehCable

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:57 PM

View PostMini Rukus, on 15 January 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:


If you claim to be a gunboat or laserboat you're the first I've seen bitching about ECM. :]


Thus far, in the above poll, 39 out of 49 players don't like ECM. So you think 79% of players are LRM boats? Are we playing the same game? Are we reading the same forums? If the only ECM complaint you've heard is about missile lock, then you just haven't read much.

Also, I've been watching the poll closely since I started it earlier today, and it has not once dipped below 75% "No."

Edited by TehCable, 15 January 2013 - 05:06 PM.


#20 TehCable

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:00 PM

And while we're at it, I'm hoping that the above poll definitively disproves the notion that the devs have that we are a "vocal minority." The only vocal minority I've seen are the people that defend ECM.





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