165 replies to this topic

[Rifter]

Its not just the ECM, they need to address the netcode, matchmaker, and weapon/heat balance and then when done all that they need to evaluate ECM and go from there.

[Flitzomat]

If it wouldn`t be open Beta and you would have joined the game right now, you would think of ECM as a legitimate tactical feature.
Stop whining, get a TAG, counter ECM, group up, or for the sake of it: Stop playing!

[yashmack]

I would rather they fix netcode before trying to nerf or buff anything else for the moment...

[Dr Killinger]

They have commented on ECM, and that it's under constant evaluation. Garth said in the latest NGNG that they've seen fewer and fewer people using it. It's just the community's latest topic to whine about. There have been many, many before it.

[twibs]

People using fewer ECM only means that most have mastered all the chassis that can use it. That people still use them so extensively while only 4 (now 5 with the spider) chassis can use it should tell you something.

That doesn't remove the problem from the 8v8 matches since there only the best mechs are used i.e. ECM-capable.

If CW ever gets out while ECM is still the same, that will be ugly.

[Fitzbattleaxe]

Is ecm a bit overpowered? Sure. But it doesn't break the game. I still find myself in matches occasionally with no ecm mechs at all. This is a beta, and you decided to join it. Now you can certainly stop playing, but don't act as though you've been terribly wronged or something. Game development is not trivial, and I'm sure the team is doing the best they can to get a good product released; they've invested a lot of time into this game, and as a matter of professional pride, they probably care just as much as you do that it's made as complete as possible. Now could some other dev team maybe do a better job? I don't know - maybe. But there's no need to get all dramatic.

[Felix]

Already not playing the game, so sure why not?

Also lol @ all the 'people' saying ECM is fine

[Lawrence Elsa]

honestly, ECM Ravens are OP right now. When they bring back knockdown, their effectiveness will be drastically lowered

as for the boycott Idea... that's just gonna make it a lot worse for them. they NEED money to keep these servers running and more importantly: to make the servers run faster

if more than half of the people buying MC spontaneously stop, this game would probably die before the Clan Invasion on March 14th

[Remarius]

No?

Solve netcode and ECM isn't a biggie. TBH I don't desperately struggle with ECM atm its just the commando and ravens lagshielded to hell that really make things difficult. I mean seriously op, do you really actually struggle to hit the mountain sized target that is the DC with a direct fire weapon?

[twibs]

Lawrence Elsa, on 16 January 2013 - 01:16 AM, said:

as for the boycott Idea... that's just gonna make it a lot worse for them. they NEED money to keep these servers running and more importantly: to make the servers run faster

Yes, but to get my support they will need to show ANY sign of willingness to communicate about the ECM thing. I'm not going to support a game I think will keep staying as one I don't enjoy.

[Armorpiercer M82]

so this game has only 234 fanbois ? uhh baaad , so small playerbase.

[Lawrence Elsa]

twibs, on 16 January 2013 - 01:21 AM, said:

Yes, but to get my support they will need to show ANY sign of willingness to communicate about the ECM thing. I'm not going to support a game I think will keep staying as one I don't enjoy.

Fair enough. I stopped playing when you only earned 36k at the end of a match (win or lose) in a trial mech, so I don't see any reason you shouldn't do the same if you feel that way.

[Felix]

Lawrence Elsa, on 16 January 2013 - 01:16 AM, said:

honestly, ECM Ravens are OP right now. When they bring back knockdown, their effectiveness will be drastically lowered

as for the boycott Idea... that's just gonna make it a lot worse for them. they NEED money to keep these servers running and more importantly: to make the servers run faster

if more than half of the people buying MC spontaneously stop, this game would probably die before the Clan Invasion on March 14th

Honestly? If this game dies maybe some developer that knows what they are doing would be able to pick up the property and make a better game with it.

Seriously we are trusting people who worked on Bass Pro Fishing and Duke Nukem Forever to make a good and faithful game... And they are rather aptly proving that they arent up to the task..

[Ranzear]

If this game doesn't improve in two weeks I won't be boycotting, because that implies I'll come back.

[Lykaon]

Falso, on 15 January 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

Why the anger?

How broke is ECM really?

Not trying to flame or troll you, I have seen it still be defeated by superior team work and yes, even using LRM's.

I'm hoping that today's fixes make the lights less difficult to hit, less hit scan issues (unfortunately net code hasn't been up-dated yet) and that will really make a difference IMO.

Until then, carry more TAG on your mechs, use ECM Lights (two working together seems to be a good formula) and have them work more at spotting/taging than going way behind enemy lines to keep from having them too far away to help protect you from their lights, and you should have 1-2 ECM Brawlers or at least a Cicada that floats between the main group and the scouts to help with ECM coverage.

Team work is the solution to most of these "problems" IMO.

How bad is ECM really? well it's pretty much a bullet to the head for the stated design goals set forth by PGI.

And how/why do I make such a bold claim?

First go watch the developer diary 1 video on this very site.Listen to Paul outline the four pillars of design intended for mechwarrior online...........

Back? ok now here is why I make the claim that ECM is super bad for the previously outlined design pillars (by the way this is the pitch that I was sold on and dropped cash on a legendary founder pack)

Paul goes on the lay out the four pillars of design for Mechwarrior online.

Mech warfare,Information warfare,role warfare and community warfare.

Here is how ECM has impacted each pillar as I have observed during my time invested in playing.

Mech warfare...

Mech warfare has been reduced to the near mandatory use of ECM.If the enemy has it you need it to counter their edge.If you want ECM dominance you need more ECM so you bring more ECM.The other guys want ECM dominance so they bring even more.It's no longer Mech warfare it's ECM warfare.

Information warfare...

Information warfare is the control of intelligence and critical data to improve your teams chances of successfully completing the groups objectives.Knowing what where and how and not letting the other team do the same is Information warfare.

ECM prevents the enemy from accumulating passive information via target locks critical data scans and friendlies spotting targets.It goes even further by preventing friendlies from knowing where each other are located.In essence ECM wins information warfare and it does so passivley.It takes no actual actions to use other than put it in a mech and use that mech.

PuG players are hit harder than Premade players in this regard because passive information is the source of nearly all of a PuG groups information.Pugs do not use voice chat they can not pre-plan to bring enough ECM to counter enemy use and they certainly do not have the ability to hand pick mech choices for recon roles.PuGs get whatever is randomly selected at the time they press launch.

In essence ECM increases the difficulty for Puggies more so than premades who have other means of gathering information.Information warfare is boiled down to bring more ECM to win this aspect of the game.ECM is the ultimate information warfare weapon because is does so much for so little.

Role warfare...

Role warfare is the careful selection of mech chassis to optimize their strengths in conjunction with exploiting the weaknesses of the enemy or reducing the weaknesses in other friendly mechs.Basicly use the right tool for the right job.

Well we now have ECM.And as has been stated ECM is powerful desireable and must be brought in bulk to asure dominance.
Role warfare is no longer about what mech is best to perform what roles it's now what mech that carries ECM is best in more roles.

ECM has in effect removed the need for all other mechs other than the Raven 3L (best in show for a speedy recon platform and hit and run raider) and the Atlas DDC (best in show for brawling it up or as a missile platform for long ranges)

Role warfare has been reduced to Atlas or Raven.sure there is room for other mechs as long as you have enough of these two first and even then your team would probably have been better off with taking another Raven or Atlas with more ECM.

Community warfare...

Community warfare hasn't even been rolled out yet and I fear that with the current state of the game it will be still born.
Paul goes on to describe the great Houses battling it out against each other for control of worlds.He describes player created Mercenary Corps,he describes premade groups battling other premade groups for dominance in a persistant world.

The current state of 8 v 8 matches is unless you are playing peak hours you are lucky to find a match in any semblance of reasonable time.The average 8 man team has at least 5-6 ECM mechs and almost always Atlas and Raven combinations.
It has become drudgery to even contimplate 8 v 8 ECM wars where my above issues with role warfare come to a head.
Many players have just quit 8 mans all together and drop 4 mans or pug.

8 v 8 is all about ECM who has it and who has more of it.The 8 v 8 meta game revolves almost entirely around ECM use.Sure you can try to play "old school" but let's face facts the other team is playing ECM and not "kickin it old school".

The quoted post goes on to explain what he feels is a good way to deal with ECM.

Essentially the solution he recomends is what I see as the problem.He suggests bring more ECM.

2 ECM scouts (Raven 3Ls) so 8-2=6 slots on the team

2 ECM Atlas brawlers so 6-2=4 slots left on the team

1 Cicada for added ECM coverage 4-1=3 slots left

Now that you have the mandatory mechs to "win" information warfare you can explore the tattered remains of role warfare by choosing 3 more mechs that in all truth would better serve your team if they also had ECM.

We take this dream team into combat within the community and get called out as ECM griefers or ECM trolls our opposistion doesn't want to play ECM wars so they don't que up in 8 mans anymore.

So now is the problem with ECM clear?

[Josef Nader]

ECM is fine. Quit your blubbering. The only thing I think they need to do to is to buff NARC beacons to be a good counter to ECM, because then people would actually run the bloody NARC. Other than that, it really is just a matter of learning to aim and avoiding total reliance on smart-fire missiles. ECM caused a big splash when it was first introduced, but the longer we go the less I see it affecting games. People are adapting, learning to counter it, and learning to deal with it. It's a useful piece of equipment, but it does not do anything that can't be easily overcome by playing smart.

Trust me, once they fix the netcode issues and you can actually hit the light mechs, you'll see that ECM has very little to do with their current power right now.

Edited by Josef Nader, 16 January 2013 - 02:09 AM.

[Even Dark]

i try to play 5 games now with a little bit taktik or fun....

there is no line no formation or backup anymore many light mechs in battles now, all over all ecm you cant see anything where to go where is the enemy where are your own guys nothing...

strategie = 0

all in all these 5 game was also chaos pur now.

better let the heavy mechs in bay and ride a ecm light mech if you want in the pew pew games have a little bit fun.


now we got ecm wars ^^

if ecm wars is fine for so many np then pls give all mechs ECM

[xRatas]

Josef Nader, on 16 January 2013 - 02:08 AM, said:

Trust me, once they fix the netcode issues and you can actually hit the light mechs, you'll see that ECM has very little to do with their current power right now.

Considering their track record of making working fixes to game, I'd expect actual working netcode somewhere around next July. I guess I'll just troll around in my ECM light until then. Besides, netcode does not solve distant connections. Ping doesn't better any better unless they start local servers.

Also, when collisions are back in game, it just starts to ask some skill from ECM light pilot. Right now almost none is needed. But it needs a lot of skill to shoot down an ECM light without SSRM, and you can not reliably use those, unless you have ECM on your side.

Also, I do not see why game changing is much better than game breaking in this case. This changes game to not fun for so many people, it might as well be breaking.

And I'm not going to go anywhere, I complain about ECM as long as I like. I like this game a lot, and I am a long time fan of Battletech and Mechwarrior in general. I would like to see this game to become a big hit. What I am seeing, ECM is one of the biggest things right now, that is effectively making that impossible. I consider it lesser threat to well being of this game to be vocal about the issue than just let it be. (But I've known to been wrong sometimes before.)

Topics like these are real indicator, that either breaking or changing, lot of people are not happy for it, and for everyone else it would most likely not be that big deal if ECM was even completely removed..?

Maybe next worthless poll should be: Would you mind if ECM was completely removed? With some options like
a ) Yes, I used ECM,
b ) Yes, I didn't use ECM,
c ) No, I used ECM,
d ) No, I didn't use ECM.
e ) What ever if this ECM talk just ends...

Finally, If ECM in it's current form causes more people to join game than causes people to leave, than it is good for the game, and I can live with that. Just claim that.

Edited by xRatas, 16 January 2013 - 03:01 AM.

[Vechs]

I was in the ECM spider today, and I camped in some little overhang between buildings on River City near three enemy LRM mechs.

I was lawling so hard.

My 1.5 tons of ECM totally made their 50+ tons of LRM launchers and ammo useless.

LOLbalance

It's so stupid now. All the matches revolve around ECM, what mechs have ECM, and what those mechs are doing with it.

[Josef Nader]

People are just blaming ECM because it's FOTM right now. Before that, it was streak cats, gaussapults, LRMs, Atlai...

The list goes on and on. ECM changed the game, but for the better, I think. It's become more tactical. It demands more communication to be effective.

For the record, I solo drop, 4 man drop, and 8 man drop with a relatively even rate. I have mechs in every weight class, and only one mech has ECM. I fight ECM lights with every weapon under the sun, and I can say with confidence that ECM is working exactly as it needs to to be useful and effective in this game. As I said, the only thing I feel needs to happen is that NARC needs to be buffed up to be another, more powerful counter to ECM (more powerful than TAG, 'cause it weighs a minimum of 4 tons and it requires a lot of skill to use). Combine that with the netcode fixes rolling out within the next 4 weeks and you'll see that the FOTM will cycle on to something else. Trust me on that.