224 replies to this topic

[Kanaric]

funny i see no ecm ravens at all today, poster must be exaggerating again :/

[Mikhalio]

Wait till you are facing SSRM6, MMRM20's and Archangel ECW.

You ain't seen nothing yet, and it's all expected to be in the game ~next 12 months.

Wait till you are facing SSRM6, MMRM20's and Archangel ECW.

You ain't seen nothing yet, and it's all expected to be in the game ~next 12 months.

[Carnivoris]

Why would anyone run a light that's not either an ECM raven or commando? Those are the only two light mechs with viable tactical relevance on the battlefield now. They can block any other mech from using SSRMs (my Jenner is very lonely), yet, can use SSRMs themselves. No other light mech in the game can compete with that. Why use anything else?

ECM completely broke light mech balance because people were complaining about streak boats. Guardian ECM is defined in BT rules as negating Artemis, NARC, and C3. Instead, we have this abomination of Guardian that disables weapon locks for enemy mechs while under the ECM umbrella. Not only that but TAG is also negated while under that umbrella, so you can't even TAG your opponent to use SSRMs.

I keep hearing people say "oh, but it's not tabletop. you can't use the same rules." That's usually true but in the case of ECM, it's not. It's an affront to game balance and should most definitely be nerfed.

The only thing I wish they'd do to ECM is to make it force longer lock on times instead of negating them completely. It's amazing to me that PGI would let something like ECM into the game in the state that it's in and expect people to be fine with it. But it doesn't matter. PGI only listens to the hordes of people that scream when they get killed. They don't listen to the killers.

Before you know it, all ACs will shoot Nerf bullets and PPCs will tickle the pilot of your target mech.

IceCase88, on 15 January 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

The ECM works as it should and according to TT rules.

ECM didn't negate missile locks in TT. It only negated NARC, Artemis and C4.

[Joe Mallad]

Blahberry, on 15 January 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

I dunno seems like you get caught up in what I like to call. "The spin of death"
The Raven circles around you and you start backing up and spinning his direction and he just keeps circling around you. Eventually you die. But if you also have other lights on your team they should get them before they get to you.
It honestly isn't very hard to peg those little ******** with my ac/20.

again! my problem is in 8 man games. My team should not and does not like to run all ECM lights. So when our 2 or 3 dedicated light mech run into those 8 ECM Ravens... they get chewed up and then the Ravens push onto the remander of your team. OR... like I said, if those 8 Ravens hit you from behind, they eat up your main force and then go off to Cap or hunt down your few light mechs that are out trying to do what they were intended to do, find the enemy lol. You must not play many 8 man games do you?

[Joe Mallad]

Carnivoris, on 15 January 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

Why would anyone run a light that's not either an ECM raven or commando? Those are the only two light mechs with viable tactical relevance on the battlefield now. They can block any other mech from using SSRMs (my Jenner is very lonely), yet, can use SSRMs themselves. No other light mech in the game can compete with that. Why use anything else?

ECM completely broke light mech balance because people were complaining about streak boats. Guardian ECM is defined in BT rules as negating Artemis, NARC, and C3. Instead, we have this abomination of Guardian that disables weapon locks for enemy mechs while under the ECM umbrella. Not only that but TAG is also negated while under that umbrella, so you can't even TAG your opponent to use SSRMs.

I keep hearing people say "oh, but it's not tabletop. you can't use the same rules." That's usually true but in the case of ECM, it's not. It's an affront to game balance and should most definitely be nerfed.

The only thing I wish they'd do to ECM is to make it force longer lock on times instead of negating them completely. It's amazing to me that PGI would let something like ECM into the game in the state that it's in and expect people to be fine with it. But it doesn't matter. PGI only listens to the hordes of people that scream when they get killed. They don't listen to the killers.

Before you know it, all ACs will shoot Nerf bullets and PPCs will tickle the pilot of your target mech.



ECM didn't negate missile locks in TT. It only negated NARC, Artemis and C4.

THIS THIS AND MORE THIS!! I could not have said it better! They took ECM and rolled Angel ECM and Null Sig into it. Oh and the one thing ECM should do, it does not. ECM should not completely cover a mech from enemy radar. Its not Null sig. And ECM is suppose to allow the user to cast ghost sigs to make the enmey think the mech is somewhere its not... yet we did not get that lol

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 15 January 2013 - 08:21 PM.

[random51]

Before it was Ravens it was Jenners. As long as lag armor is in the game whichever light is considered the best is the mech you're going to get sick of seeing.

[Joe Mallad]

random51, on 15 January 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

Before it was Ravens it was Jenners. As long as lag armor is in the game whichever light is considered the best is the mech you're going to get sick of seeing.

you are right but at least with the Jenner... it was just that (at the time) with it being the hardest hitting light out there and add in the rubber banding, and lag shielding... thats why everyone took it. Now we have these same issues just an over powered ability to use ECM on a different light mech lol

[PurpleNinja]

How about ECM spiders?

[JSparrowist]

Kanaric, on 15 January 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

funny i see no ecm ravens at all today, poster must be exaggerating again :/

Open your eyes when you play. You'll be much more effective AND might have a clue what you're talking about.

[Joe Mallad]

PurpleNinja, on 15 January 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

How about ECM spiders?

they are not an issue because they cant use Streaks lol Or at least dont seem to be much of an issue YET... because everyone is still running ECM Streak Ravens lol

[BL00D RAVEN]

if i take the ssrm off of my raven 3l, will i be able to use it without being called a cheater?

[Xenoid]

At this point the only viable solution to ECM is to allow every mech to carry it (as it should be). That way, if every mech is "special", than no mech is special. Just my $.02.

[BL00D RAVEN]

GoTeamVenture, on 15 January 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

At this point the only viable solution to ECM is to allow every mech to carry it (as it should be). That way, if every mech is "special", than no mech is special. Just my $.02.

if everyone can get ecm, can everyone get jj

100ton flying atlas

[Bully_Hayes]

Sometimes I think with all the moaning and complaining folks lose track of the fact that the community itself is responsible for half the problem. Members of the community built the streak boats and formed the ecm raven 8 mech groups and the 8 mech uber atlas lances. PGI gave us the toys and some community members ran with it creating many of the problems you refer to above. In affect folks seem to want PGI to provide the toys and police the community,you want things nerfed because a minority of players abuse what they have been given to play with. The sad truth is that its not going to end with the nerfing of ECM,they will find something else. It doesn't help that the op has grossly exaggerated the situation,for some reason folks tend to think that adds weight to the argument.

[Solis Obscuri]

BL00D RAVEN, on 15 January 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

100ton flying atlas

Sounds fun!

[Tarman]

Kanaric, on 15 January 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

funny i see no ecm ravens at all today, poster must be exaggerating again :/

No, today it's ECM Atlas teams. They're migrating out of 8v8 into the pug scene. Classy. :| Saw the mandatory WATCH ME FLAP MY LIPS LIKE A CHIMP THAT JUST FLUNG POO team of them a bit ago. At least keep your gate pinned while you're "slumming" and scraping up easy wins, there's already little class in it as it is just by your team build.

[JSparrowist]

Tarman, on 15 January 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

No, today it's ECM Atlas teams. They're migrating out of 8v8 into the pug scene. Classy. :| Saw the mandatory WATCH ME FLAP MY LIPS LIKE A CHIMP THAT JUST FLUNG POO team of them a bit ago. At least keep your gate pinned while you're "slumming" and scraping up easy wins, there's already little class in it as it is just by your team build.

Not enough skill for 8v8 so PUG farming it is. At least when the game dies we not only have PGI to blame, but those asshats too!

[Tarman]

JSparrowist, on 15 January 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

Not enough skill for 8v8 so PUG farming it is. At least when the game dies we not only have PGI to blame, but those asshats too!

I don't even care about getting rolled, it's a pug, it happens. Sometimes you die horribly. It's purely the attitude behind it that irks me, not the delivery method.

[Joe Mallad]

Paladin851, on 15 January 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

Sometimes I think with all the moaning and complaining folks lose track of the fact that the community itself is responsible for half the problem. Members of the community built the streak boats and formed the ecm raven 8 mech groups and the 8 mech uber atlas lances. PGI gave us the toys and some community members ran with it creating many of the problems you refer to above. In affect folks seem to want PGI to provide the toys and police the community,you want things nerfed because a minority of players abuse what they have been given to play with. The sad truth is that its not going to end with the nerfing of ECM,they will find something else. It doesn't help that the op has grossly exaggerated the situation,for some reason folks tend to think that adds weight to the argument.

tell me how i grossly exaggerated the situation? As far as PGI giving us the tools and we running with it... you would think they having tested these very tools before giving them to us, would think of the same things we are exploiting or over using to the point that others complain. Do you really think PGI sat down and tested what it would be like to run a full 8 man ECM Raven team with Streaks and the lag issues or hit detection issues against another more well rounder team with IDK, 2 to 3 light anything else? Do you think PGI sat down and ran a full 8 man Atlas ECM team and steam rolled the unsuspecting team on the other end that was trying their hand at a more well mixed unit? I dont think so. Do you think they tried just maybe adding ECM as its written up in the rule book before giving it the ability to do other things from different units like Angel ECm and Null Sig? Sure seems like someone was like... "We need to nerf Streaks and LRM boating so so lets have ECm do it all!"

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 15 January 2013 - 09:26 PM.

[Orgasmo]

IceCase88, on 15 January 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

It is not the ECM that makes them invulnerable. The ECM works as it should and according to TT rules. If you do not think it works according to TT rules then you are wrong and need to reread them. It spells out specifically how ECM functions and it performs the exact same in-game. The problem with the 3L is the hitboxes, lagshield to an extent, and too many hardpoints. Some of those hardpoints are supposed to be occupied by tag, bap, and narc. Someone pointed this out in another thread and it was a brilliant observation. Especially since the Raven is supposed to be a scout and electronic warfare specialist.

Not sure which TT game you were playing, but it sure as hell ain't BattleTech.

"Enemy long-range sensors can find vehicles and 'Mechs within the curtain, but the Guardian obscures the reading and prevents identification."
(Technical Readout: 3050 Revised, pg 196)

"The ECM does not affect other scanning or targeting devices such as TAG and targeting computers"
(Total Warfare, pg 134)

"ECM blocks the effects of Artemis IV fire control systems. Artemis-equipped launchers may be fired as normal missiles through the ECM, but they lose the Cluster Hits Table Bonus"
(Total Warfare, pg 134)

"Active probes cannot penetrate the ECM's area of effect. The probing unit would notice it is being jammed, however"
(Total Warfare, pg 134)

"Though ECM systems can prevent a sensor probe from identifying a unit, they produce powerful distinctive electronic signatures."
(Maximum Tech, pg 54)