224 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Yoseful Mallad, on 17 January 2013 - 12:10 AM, said:

I have never had an issue countering LRM (with or without ECM). The big issue is ECM gives those that use Streaks, free reign to counter everything else in the game to some extent but still freely use one of the games (easiest/cheap) weapons against you. I know a lot of people think LRM users need no real skill to use them. But Streaks by far are this game's no skill to use weapon. I personally would love to see the Streak go bye bye lol

I didnt either. Grouping AMS fields of fire and not walking out into the open worked fine for me.

but

Kousagi, on 16 January 2013 - 11:39 PM, said:

and if you think AMS was a great counter to LRM boats, then I kinda feel bad for ya.

apparently not for kousagi. He needs his on/off button

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 17 January 2013 - 12:18 AM.

[Joe Mallad]

yeah i do have to say that with the addition of ECm as is... they all but effectively caused people to stop using AMS (for the most part) Granted... I still use my duel AMS on my Atlas K and my Stalker with duel AMS. But other than that... i generally dont use it much any more because I know someone on my team will have ECM and I can just hide under that from LRMs.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 17 January 2013 - 12:23 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Yoseful Mallad, on 17 January 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

yeah i do have to say that with the addition of ECm as is... they all but effectively caused people to stop using AMS (for the most part) Granted... I still use my duel AMS on my Atlas K and my Stalker with duel AMS. But other than that... i generally dont use it much any more because I know someone on my team will have ECM and I can just hide under that from LRMs.

and if you remember, when they announced that all mechs would have AMS this exact same uproar was all over the place because people thought it would ruin LRMs lol
Personally, I thought it was a good idea vOv

[Mxxpower]

I love finding people without AMS... TAG! URE IT!

I think that's why most people are pissed about LRM's honestly. They think ECM is an imunity bubble... Any competant scout, or myself in my LRM stalker with TAG rains on their parade.

derp derp atlas DDC in the middle of the water

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Mxxpower, on 17 January 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

I love finding people without AMS... TAG! URE IT!

I think that's why most people are pissed about LRM's honestly. They think ECM is an imunity bubble... Any competant scout, or myself in my LRM stalker with TAG rains on their parade.

derp derp atlas DDC in the middle of the water

"Ima run out in the water" is what I hear whenever I see people QQing about how OP LRMs are now really.

[Sandslice]

GalaxyBluestar, on 17 January 2013 - 12:06 AM, said:

lrm boats are only effective when they target someone stupid or distracted, now if you're distracted by an enemy ignoring the warnings or are pinned by other enemies fireing at you it's called being beaten.

You can also be distracted by a third situation - if someone is poking you with Streaks, it triggers Betty's missile warning, leaving you no way to distinguish the Streak pokes from the potentially more dangerous LRM storm.

[Roadbuster]

I run alot of different mechs with different loadouts and I really like the variation.
The problem is that, to be effective, I have to resort to specific builds or mechs.

At the moment, if I'm getting tired of getting killed by light ECM mechs or want to make more CB and get more kills, I take my ECM Raven and hunt other ECM and light mechs.

If PGI does nothing to adjust ECM and as long as netcode is so bad, I'll just join the abusers when piloting my other mechs gets frustrating.

EDIT:
There's always someone who will just stand in an open area traing to snipe someone while getting showered by LRMs.
Or the teams that ignore the information that the opponent got heavy LRM support and don't use cover.
Btw. I rarely see an Atlas without ECM. There is a AS7-D sometimes but I can't remember the last time I've seen a K or RS.

Edited by Roadbuster, 17 January 2013 - 01:33 AM.

[Mxxpower]

Roadbuster, on 17 January 2013 - 01:24 AM, said:

I run alot of different mechs with different loadouts and I really like the variation.
The problem is that, to be effective, I have to resort to specific builds or mechs.

At the moment, if I'm getting tired of getting killed by light ECM mechs or want to make more CB and get more kills, I take my ECM Raven and hunt other ECM and light mechs.

If PGI does nothing to adjust ECM and as long as netcode is so bad, I'll just join the abusers when piloting my other mechs gets frustrating.

EDIT:
There's always someone who will just stand in an open area traing to snipe someone while getting showered by LRMs.
Or the teams that ignore the information that the opponent got heavy LRM support and don't use cover.
Btw. I rarely see an Atlas without ECM. There is a AS7-D sometimes but I can't remember the last time I've seen a K or RS.

Running your raven is by no means abusing the game, so don't worry about that. As I said, it must be the way PGI wants it, otherwise they wouldn't have allowed them to carry the 1.5 ton uberinvisibilitycloakofdoom.

[Adrienne Vorton]

are you playing MWO?

i did barely see any ECM at all in the last 2 days...

[Kaijin]

Kousagi, on 17 January 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

With ECM in the game, yes. They are "balanced" but its not really a true balance. If you quote TT, they are 1 damage per missile and in MWO they are 1.8 damage per missile, where every other weapon is or is very close to, its TT equal in terms of damage.

As has been stated before, but obviously somebody needs a refresher, if you quote TT, nothing could be aimed. Hit location determination was by die roll, so "Every other weapon" would not be doing the precise damage in TT that they do in MWO. LRMs in both TT and MWO hit random locations, but in TT they did so in groups of 5, so a hit with an LRM15 say would do 3 instances of 5 points damage, each to a random single location. In MWO, the hits are spread all over the target mech, so even at greater than 1 damage per missile, the barrage is not as effective as it would be in TT.

Edited by Kaijin, 17 January 2013 - 02:42 AM.

[Roadbuster]

Garth Erlam, on 16 January 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

Just to clear THIS thing up, I can assure you 3L Ravens aren't 'almost every Mech' (they actually aren't top 5, if memory serves, for the last 30 days.)

And again on ECM - if you wrote a well-written, well laid out post with a suggestion on the suggestion forums, the designers have seen it. I also collated and included PM's (Though I'd prefer you guys use the suggestions forum! ), emails (see PM's) and the like. The total email was about 6 pages in size, with the ECM suggestions being about a page/page and a half (and mostly links.)

We can't just knee-jerk change things though. We play the same game you do, often IN the same games you do, so we've both heard, and seen with our own eyes, what you're talking about. And although my mighty Cicada fears no ECM, I understand that every Mech is different, and has different requirements.

So to sum up - we're on it.

THANK YOU FOR THIS RESPONSE!

Short posts like this are what the community needs. People just want to know you are aware of things that bother them.
Maybe you could post such responses somewhere in the developers corner, so they are easy to find.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Sandslice, on 17 January 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

You can also be distracted by a third situation - if someone is poking you with Streaks, it triggers Betty's missile warning, leaving you no way to distinguish the Streak pokes from the potentially more dangerous LRM storm.

not exactly ssrm warnings flick on and off, the grannie lrm's leave your hud saying warning for ages. but yeah i see your point.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 17 January 2013 - 02:45 AM.

[Thorqemada]

Kousagi, on 16 January 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

Admit that SSRM's and LRM's are OP? Sure, ECM is just a allow/deny mechanic, itself is not OP, so it does not need to be nerfed. You have to fix the problem, which is SSRM/LRM's. So if they are nerfed, then ECM will have less effect. Also in terms of the raven, once netcode is fixed, then they will not be much of a bother, since that is the main reason they stay alive.

When i read your post and your reasoning i feel the deep urge to say something unkind...

A deny mechanic that is totally passive and needs no pilot interaction and has no significant drawback when equipped is the most obvious piece of an OP mechanic imagineable!
It is the very climax of non-skill-gameplay!

[Thorqemada]

Garth Erlam, on 16 January 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

Just to clear THIS thing up, I can assure you 3L Ravens aren't 'almost every Mech' (they actually aren't top 5, if memory serves, for the last 30 days.)

And again on ECM - if you wrote a well-written, well laid out post with a suggestion on the suggestion forums, the designers have seen it. I also collated and included PM's (Though I'd prefer you guys use the suggestions forum! ), emails (see PM's) and the like. The total email was about 6 pages in size, with the ECM suggestions being about a page/page and a half (and mostly links.)

We can't just knee-jerk change things though. We play the same game you do, often IN the same games you do, so we've both heard, and seen with our own eyes, what you're talking about. And although my mighty Cicada fears no ECM, I understand that every Mech is different, and has different requirements.

So to sum up - we're on it.

Nice to see you writing Garth!

Though i feel no surprise that a Light Mech is not the most played Mech bcs we know that Heavys and Assaults make up the majority of Mechs.
With the current set of Trial Mechs the CN9-D and Stalker boost some numbers for their variant, even some trial Ravens run around to be free kills.
But i strongly believe that the Raven 3L is the most popular Light mech with numbers tainted by players using other Ravens to get their Skilltree done.
The Spider will probably ***** the numbers even more bcs its new and many will try it out.

I can only say that using a Raven 3L my K/D has significantly increased, my W/L changes into a positive value though i still have to catch 26 more wins than losses until i have brought my overall W/L including the games in Catapults and Centurions into a positive value - its a matter days if not hours if i dedicate some serious time investment to it and not the usual 3 matches here, 5 there...

What is mysterious to me is that i get losses and wins almost allways in series, in rows of losses and wins.
Lose 5 in a row, win 7 in a row etc - rare that it changes from match to match.

Let me end to say i appreciate the increased level of appearance on the forums bcs the forum game is one half of the overall fun.



PS: ECM to hell

PPS: The word filter does filter unharmful words...

Edited by Thorqemada, 17 January 2013 - 03:31 AM.

[AlexWildeagle]

Garth Erlam, on 16 January 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

Just to clear THIS thing up, I can assure you 3L Ravens aren't 'almost every Mech' (they actually aren't top 5, if memory serves, for the last 30 days.)

And again on ECM - if you wrote a well-written, well laid out post with a suggestion on the suggestion forums, the designers have seen it. I also collated and included PM's (Though I'd prefer you guys use the suggestions forum! ), emails (see PM's) and the like. The total email was about 6 pages in size, with the ECM suggestions being about a page/page and a half (and mostly links.)

We can't just knee-jerk change things though. We play the same game you do, often IN the same games you do, so we've both heard, and seen with our own eyes, what you're talking about. And although my mighty Cicada fears no ECM, I understand that every Mech is different, and has different requirements.

So to sum up - we're on it.

Well I hope before the devs nerf ECM they adjust missiles back to their intended role. Watching matches of missile launchers vs. missile launchers was not fun. Please relegate missiles back to their intended role and then do whatever you want to ECM.

[Truthstar]

If Class limitations per drop(2,2,2,2) were put in place none of this would be an issue.

[Wolf Clearwater]

Garth Erlam, on 16 January 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

Just to clear THIS thing up, I can assure you 3L Ravens aren't 'almost every Mech' (they actually aren't top 5, if memory serves, for the last 30 days.)

I am glad you guys are doing something, thanks for the post. But I do have to disagree with you about this. This morning I ran 5 drops in my Commando 1-D (not an ECM model) and this is a typical sample of what I see most of the time. I counted all the ECM lights. Counted myself in the total light mechs for match, did not use ECM for any match.

1st drop out of 4 light mechs: 2x Commando 2-D with ECM and streak

2nd drop of 6 lights: 2x Raven 3-L and 2x Commando 2-D with ECM and streak

3rd drop of 2 lights: 1 Raven 3-L with ECM and streak

4th drop of 4 lights: 1 Raven 3-L, 1 Commando 2-D with ECM and streak, and one Spider 5-D with ECM

5th drop of 3 lights: NO ECM

So while they are not the majority every match, you can see why this gets frustrating. To use a non-ECM light mech usually means getting torn apart very quickly. I know this is not a detailed survey of 100 or 1000 matches, but this is very typical and why many players are frustrated. I have seen 4 man Raven 3-L teams all boating ECM and streak, it sucks to run into them a few matches in a row.

To be clear I LIKE ECM. I think it is a great addition to the game, I just feel that ECM + SSRM = GOD MODE for light mechs right now. ECM allows a scouting role that is actually functional, run over there spot a few targets, move on. I am sure there is not a quick and easy solution to the issue. But perhaps with ECM on disrupt making it impossible to achieve lock, or making it impossible to have both (an either or situation) would level the playing field. There are lots of posts, and a ton of threads from angry/frustrated players, but the I don't think the intent of the majority is to be toxic. Like others, I love this game, and I want to see it be improve AND be very successful. On that note, thank you devs for everything you do.

[Atlas3060]

Adrienne Vorton, on 17 January 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

are you playing MWO?

i did barely see any ECM at all in the last 2 days...

I've seen them. A Raven was told to buzz off by my Hunchie's AC/20.
Then ecm Atlas and multiple Cataphracts tore into me because I harassed their favorite pet bird.

[Volume]

Here's a quick thought.

Even if ECM 'Mechs can't carry missiles, other fast 'Mechs with missile slots (Jenner D for example) can just stay under the 180m umbrella.

That said most of the commando and jenner variants involve SRMs.

Or maybe just arbitrarily restrict SSRMS.

OR BETTER YET FIX THE PROBLEM. But we know THAT can't happen.

Edited by Volume, 17 January 2013 - 07:46 AM.

[Lykaon]

When ECM was first released I finally got my Raven 3L to master as I already had the XP stockpiled on my 2X and 4X Ravens I would now master a second light chassis in addition to Jenners.

So I tricked out my 3L put in some endosteel double the heatsinks add an AMS and replace the 210xl with a 280xl slap in a couple of streak launchers and off to the races.

I spent the next couple of days getting my head around ECM warfare and how to apply strategies and counter strategies.I prepared my report to my unit that was suppose to outline new training docterines for the use of and countering of ECM.

In the end all I had to say was this game will devolve to ECM v ECM as the be all end all of meta game strategy.That the ultimate evolution of this strategy would be light mech + ECM + streak missiles = victory.

Now here we are and I told ya so.