293 replies to this topic

[Nekki Basara]

Your objections are built entirely around pubbies being terrible, and this meaning that the game complexity should be nerfed to accomodate terrible pubbies. Try getting eight people together and get on voice comms together, you'll start to understand what level of gameplay the dev's are aiming to balance for.

[hammerreborn]

Solis Obscuri, on 16 January 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

Team 1: I have Information Warfare!
Team 2: I have Information Warfare!
Team 1: I'm turning ECM to "Disrupt"
Team 2: Hey I think I see something but... can't get lock...
Team 1: LOL
Team 2: Hey, where'd half my team go? They're not displaying anywhere...
Team 2: Crap, we're at 0-4 now? Where'd everybody... Aww crap, 8 guys are rushing over the ridge!
Team 1: ROFL

Sorry, I don't remember when the spawns were located that close in.. .Oh, more hyperbole, right.

Yeah, that's what all scouts used to do before ECM.

But scouts without ECM can't do any of those things (well, unless they can maybe type really fast in team chat while they're getting Streaked to death...)

Fixed

You're not a very bright one are you.

From the information warfare posts.

Quote

Overview

At its heart, Information Warfare is about controlling the flow of information on the battlefield.

• Knowing where your enemy is.
  
• Knowing the current status of your enemy.
  
• Understanding your enemy’s intentions.
  
• Sharing information between units.

Scouting is required to know the first three, ECM only negates the 4th (from automatically happening) aside from text/voice communications.

Quote

Disruption/Spoofing

With such an emphasis on detection and tracking, we also needed a counter balance, something that players could equip. Using the module system, we allow players to equip Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) devices in the form of:

• Spoofers – Beacons that send out a false target signatures.
  
• Disruptors – Disrupt or block modes, communication, target acquisition and locks.
  
• Surveillance – Allows a player to intercept and decode enemy intel.

ECM clearly works as the disruptors. So Info Warfare is working as intended.

And cut the crap with the "Spawns aren't that close". Walk into the water in River City from the south side and you can see the entire other team, and with BAP/Sensor Range you can even lock on them. Same with forest, walk up the first hill and you can see everything but a cave rush. Just because your fictional Team 2 is ******** doesn't mean that Information Warfare isn't working. Any team with a modicum of communication wouldn't start herpingderping because ECM was turned on.

Also, team2 lost the info warfare game, and lost as a result, working as intended

Edited by hammerreborn, 16 January 2013 - 07:36 PM.

[Dirk Le Daring]

Grraarrgghh, on 16 January 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

List?

1) every problem presented is blown way out of proportion

2) no incremental change is good enough for this community

3) typically the criticism misses the "constructive" part

4) you rehash problems they have addressed every ******* day until they are fixed

5) unrealistic self-entitlement

6) narrow view of game development

7) everything is aired in public like dirty laundry rather than emailed directly to PGI

8) most ideas are myopic and don't take other playstyles/setups/people into consideration

Listen to VCRS!

http://mwomercs.com/...anuary-16-2013/

This is great. And in just the right spot for this thread. <S>

[Mikhalio]

Solis Obscuri, on 16 January 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

Yep, no bug reports or feedback on the new content of features at all.

Keep up that "rigorous" amateur analysis!

I'm sorry. Please redo your homework without the threads started by developers to direct comments. If you want, please also review the quality of the posts in those threads and resend your homework with constructive BUG AND SUGGESTION REPORTS to the thread.

Your attention to detail, like everything you reply to me about, is lacking. I can see why you follow me around nipping and looking like an *****.

[Solis Obscuri]

Nekki Basara, on 16 January 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

Your objections are built entirely around pubbies being terrible, and this meaning that the game complexity should be nerfed to accomodate terrible pubbies.

Please elaborate on the skill and tactical complexity involved in using a passive device that not only nullifies the Information Warfare capabilities of the entire enemy team, but also provides immunity from two of the most powerful weapon systems in the game.

[Mikhalio]

Dirk Le Daring, on 16 January 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

This is great. And in just the right spot for this thread. <S>

Actually he's totally bang on.

This forum only got attention because it made the Yahoo Games meta-trend tracker. This being said, 99% of the poasts in this place are either whines for handicaps by players who have no clue what they are doing, or responses to said poor players.

Guess which one I am, and which one you are; if you want the ad homin attack-mode today.

PS. more 8-man's to drop against please.

Solis Obscuri, on 16 January 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

Please elaborate on the skill and tactical complexity involved in using a passive device that not only nullifies the Information Warfare capabilities of the entire enemy team, but also provides immunity from two of the most powerful weapon systems in the game.

Hey, are you done your homework assignment yet ? Focus on one task at a time. You have proven incapable of providing 1 thread of insight, don't draw others discussion down also, cool ?

[ArmandTulsen]

Tennex, on 16 January 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

i don't care about the game for me. I want PGI to do well

Yes. This will mean MW is popular and has a large player base. This will be good for MW in the future.

Whining is useful in these spots. It's not selfish or entitled. It's intended to draw attention to important issues for the good of the game in the long run, not to suit our particular play styles and make the individual comfortable.

Doing it "constructively" means it's simply "taken into consideration," which is the corporate bureaucratic speak equivalent of rolling your eyes and ignoring it. Outrage and outcry means it's taken seriously. If whiner's just DGAF, then they wouldn't exist. They're whining because they truly care.

Edited by ArmandTulsen, 16 January 2013 - 08:03 PM.

[Syncline]

As much as it pains me to do so, I have to agree with a Goon. Grraarrgghh's points are dead-on accurate.

Further, this community gets incredibly emotional over their precious mech franchise, and I understand why - I have been a BT fan for ~16 years and want to see it succeed just like everone else- but good lord, the tears that are shed, the feces that gets thrown, the QQ that gets spammed, all of it, is just ludicrous!

The posts on these forums are huge walls of text that nobody reads, and for good reason: rather than constructive discussion, they're full of sickeningly-dramatic drivel.

If it takes you 25 minutes to type out a post, you're probably trying too hard. Or, you could be writing a novel fueled by emotion and little more, in which case you are probably burying useful comments under a heap of crap nobody reads.

Freaking chill out. Keep it simple and people might read what you have to say. Oh, and be patient. PGI wants to improve the game whether you believe it or not.

Edited by Syncline, 16 January 2013 - 08:09 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

Mikhalio, on 16 January 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

I can see why you follow me around nipping and looking like an *****.

I've pointed out twice that based on even cursory review, you're making a number of unsupported and incorrect statements based on highly selective and unrigorous methods of data collection. Do you always respond this poorly to criticism?

[mekabuser]

Garth Erlam, on 16 January 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

I sent a 5 page 'suggestions from the forums' email to design a couple days ago, with multiple links to ECM ideas.


The fact is ECM numbers are dropping - in both pub games (a LOT), and in competitive games (a fair amount - the average is much, much lower than 'all eight Mechs'. Are we looking at changes? Yes. Am I going to post here every time we have an idea in testing? No.

nice post. yep, ive obvserved ecm numbers are down too, mentioned it somewhere.
We all know what these forums are like, but truth be told, Id take this insanity over crickets any day. These forums are far far more lively than planetside and hawken put together. That means something. It means if the devs work their arses off, make the proper investments in talent they will have a wildly popular game. A game with a core fanbase that will make the universe pgi creates come alive.
the slow pace of development though feeds the frenzy of implied failure.
Id say,, just give us maps... we need maps. maps are the foundation of the universe we are all imagining and hope you are going to allow us to fight in. Maps are the breadsticks and yummy hand made bread we need to eat because it "feels" like an hour since we ordered dinner.
Maps are what we need while community warfare, dropship modes and everything else gets sorted out and implemented.
You have to realize a NR game that lasts all of 5 minutes means that people who play this game are playing the same maps, over and over and over and over and over .........................................
maps mate. even if you throw them out eventually... maps.

[Jetfire]

I have never gotten the impression they have ignored us, but maybe that is because I have worked in customer service and customers seem to think that no matter what the request, when it is given or who they have directed it to that 100% of their request will be fulfilled within 15 mins to an hour. Sorry, sometimes it takes days to get anything done and with the Dev to Customer ratio as high as it is, they could spend all day 19 hours a day on the forums just talking to us and nothing would ever get done.

You want something answered, have a good point, make a good positive suggestion and then wait. If no one gets back to you, accept maybe that either no one had time to answer or that your ideas just weren't going to work. Everyone has an opinion and most of them are crap. We have all made suggestions we thought were good, but none of us knows all the ins and outs of the project.

That said I think the new ASK THE DEVS section is their chance to shine rather than just hand us shallow answers due to time constraints. We shall see monday, but the fact they realized it wasn't that effective is good enough for me.

[Roadkill]

Coolwhoami, on 16 January 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

What are you disagreeing with? You essentially regurgitated his post and the explanations for it. Unless you are disagreeing with the fact that ECM is not intrinsically an automatic win unit, then I don't really know what to say.

I mis-read Garth's post.

Garth, I apologize. Please carry on doing your good work.

Coolwhoami, thanks for pointing it out without being an *** about it. I really hate it when I mis-read important information from the devs like that.

[Mikhalio]

Solis Obscuri, on 16 January 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

I've pointed out twice that based on even cursory review, you're making a number of unsupported and incorrect statements based on highly selective and unrigorous methods of data collection. Do you always respond this poorly to criticism?

You responded once, and you did not adjust your commentary to validate the clear point the forums do not add value at a quick blush. You instead bootstrapped your opinion twice with stickies that are filed with very bad suggestions vs. hard bug reports or error logs. This proved my point.
Highly selective methods of data collection ? I looked down the forum for the last 10 hours. Twice. Do you want me to run some statistics for you ?
Actually, no, I just find it adorable you follow me from thread to thread. Review my post history, I'm actually pretty good at Poasting for a ****-poaster.

That being said:
- Look at the forum, both Nico's bug report forum, and the current General forum. I see 3 nerf threads. 1 white knight thread and 2 bug complaints.
- No developer (Garth is not a dev) insight posted, its about 11 pm Pacific time. So almost closing time at PGI.
- I see in the bug report section, feedback subsection: 2 ECM complaints, 1 UI complaint, 1 colour complaint. 2 lag complaints.

So, in a third sample poll, I see again, nothing value add to the developers beyond singular whines and vanity posts asking for more cash-store or handicaps.
Point stands.

[Mikhalio]

der langsamere, on 16 January 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

wow you got 90 Goons to like your post... good for you

It's a really good post. Actually not all of those guys are goons, but he nailed nearly everything wrong matchplay and ladder players joke about the forum goers.

[Thirdstar]

der langsamere, on 16 January 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

wow you got 90 Goons to like your post... good for you

That's pretty much what Goons do.

Mikhalio, on 16 January 2013 - 10:29 PM, said:

It's a really good post. Actually not all of those guys are goons, but he nailed nearly everything wrong matchplay and ladder players joke about the forum goers.

How's the air up on that high horse? Now I see why you want MWO to go full bore P2W.

[Mikhalio]

Thirdstar, on 16 January 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

That's pretty much what Goons do.



How's the air up on that high horse? Now I see why you want MWO to go full bore P2W.

How is that a high horse ?
I'm stating the perception most have about most of this forum's complaint threads for handicaps or freemium perks.
Upset at the messenger ? Look at the message and who its directed to ?

FYI My horse is white, an Arabian mare. I got it from the Sheik, who I traded for a barrel of wine. The wine was stolen from French Canadian Pirates, from Nigeria.

[ollo]

Grraarrgghh, on 16 January 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

Everything has been addressed and has proposed changes other than ECM, which PGI and most competitive players believe is fine.

Everyone who cries about ECM is a baby who hasn't played a competitive round in their life.

Everyone that calls the players that rightfully complain about ECM babies is just rude and has absolutely no idea what the problem is.

Edited by ollo, 16 January 2013 - 10:43 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

Mikhalio, on 16 January 2013 - 10:24 PM, said:

you did not adjust your commentary to validate the clear point the forums do not add value at a quick blush.

Do you mean to say that, even at a quick blush it is apparent the forums do not add value, or that taking a quick look over the forums does not immediately provide feedback of value? I would agree with the latter more than the former, but in the end I would say the forums do add value. However, the signal/noise ratio could be much better.

Mikhalio, on 16 January 2013 - 10:24 PM, said:

You instead bootstrapped your opinion twice with stickies that are filed with very bad suggestions vs. hard bug reports or error logs. This proved my point.

Well, I've already commented on your standards of rigor, so i won't belabor the point.

Mikhalio, on 16 January 2013 - 10:24 PM, said:

Highly selective methods of data collection ? I looked down the forum for the last 10 hours. Twice. Do you want me to run some statistics for you ?

I can do my own stats if I felt like it. I was pointing out, that even at a glance, your summary of forum activity was spurious. Though you did get points for "truthiness", which is why I liked your post.

[fil5000]

der langsamere, on 16 January 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

ah my bad I just saw the first few names that were listed (which are all Goons)

But what was the point of your post anyway? There isn't just a magic "Push button, receive goon likes" system we have, we have to actually agree with what he's posting or we won't bother clicking like on it. Is your point that the opinion of a goon is worthless?

[Corvus Antaka]

You guys really need to lay off the personal attacks and trolling. I sense a lock hammer about to fall.