293 replies to this topic

[malibu43]

Rannos, on 16 January 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

Yes.

I disagree with you. I think he was spot on.

Serapth, on 16 January 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

You really ought to have read my post better... in fact, had you quoted a bit further...




This has nothing to do with programmers. Artists churn out art, be it textures for levels, meshes for levels, hell... level design in smaller shops. Instead these resources are being put towards cash grabs, or so it seems. It IS the same pool of people, this has nothing to do with the programming team.



...

I was going to tell you why you're still wrong, but others already did. The same people creating Hero mechs and new camo patterns are probably not the same people who could be working on level/map design.

[Grraarrgghh]

Felix, on 16 January 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

I didnt know guys who skin and model mechs couldnt skin or model a building, a tree (or animate said tree), or what have you.

You have a very strange view of how art works.

So basically every guitarist should know how to play an oboe.

Right, got it.

[Josef Nader]

For reference, I've built many a level in Valve's Hammer editor, but I can't even model a trashcan in 3DS Max. Trust me when I say they're two very different things.

[malibu43]

Felix, on 16 January 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

I didnt know guys who skin and model mechs couldnt skin or model a building, a tree (or animate said tree), or what have you.

You have a very strange view of how art works.

So do you have sources that state that the thing holding up the release of new maps is texturing? My guess would be that design and 3D model of maps is wha takes a lot of time.

[CypherHalo]

Grraarrgghh, on 16 January 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

List?

1) every problem presented is blown way out of proportion

2) no incremental change is good enough for this community

3) typically the criticism misses the "constructive" part

4) you rehash problems they have addressed every ******* day until they are fixed

5) unrealistic self-entitlement

6) narrow view of game development

7) everything is aired in public like dirty laundry rather than emailed directly to PGI

8) most ideas are myopic and don't take other playstyles/setups/people into consideration

Yeah, some good points there but the whole point of forums is to offer your opinion. I do think people could be more polite but their feedback still matters. I mean, it's a viewpoint that PGI is going to be hard-pressed to get anywhere else. Also, I'm kind of tired of everyone engaging in "armchair psychology" (ex. saying "you're entitled"). Are there entitled people, whiny people, etc etc etc out there? Sure, but I don't think using what they post on video game forums to psycho-analyze them is effective.

SquareSphere, on 16 January 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

7) everyone has Beta Fatigue

This ^

Big issue IMO. In hindsight, they probably should not have had such a long closed beta which rolled straight into open beta. A few CB events like the Hawken team did would have been better and they probably should not have released the game OB until it was more "feature complete". Sorry, but people have different expectations of an open beta these days, especially when the devs will accept your money. People expect the game to be "nearly complete" but this game is more like "half complete".

I'm waiting for the netcode to be fixed and dropship mutator to arrive to see if the game finally becomes fun.

[Grraarrgghh]

CypherHalo, on 16 January 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

Also, I'm kind of tired of everyone engaging in "armchair psychology" (ex. saying "you're entitled"). Are there entitled people, whiny people, etc etc etc out there? Sure, but I don't think using what they post on video game forums to psycho-analyze them is effective.

I minored in Psychology. :colbert:

[CypherHalo]

InRev, on 16 January 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

I don't usually (read: ever) post on the forums, but this statement concerned me enough to actually log in.

Am I the only one who thinks it's not necessarily the best idea to balance a game around the opinions of the hardcore, e-sport gaming elite? Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against elitism itself, but considering the fact that the vast majority of a game's player base (and thus the source of the money) is not, in fact, those who play tournaments, I'm not convinced that "competitive" players are the demographic to which devs should be catering.

Min-maxers can always make the best out of game balance, but stupid puggers such as myself are not usually as adept. When we stupid puggers are turned off by game mechanics, we leave because, well, why play if we don't have fun? When we leave, the money dries up. I understand that dedicated, intelligent, skilled and organized players can quite easily counter ECM or whatever the FOTM game balance issue may be. Hell, a dual gauss barrage into a Raven does wonders. However, the majority of matches (and thus the majority of actual gameplay experience for most players) is not contested by dedicated, intelligent, skilled or organized players. It is the stinking, snivelling masses that forms the bulk of a gaming community so, yeah, they may be whining idiots, but they're whining idiots with wallets.

To point, upon reading the patch notes for this latest update, and seeing not only no ECM changes, no energy weapon changes, and no notable netcode fixes, but the addition of an ECM mech for which the devs included a disclaimer regarded the fact that it doesn't perform well with the netcode, my first reaction was "welp, I'm playing Anno 2070 I guess".

I do not for a second that the game should be dumbed down to the point of auto-aim or free-streaks-for-everybody, but I do think that there is a wide expanse of middle ground that will be missed by looking primarily to 8-man drops for feedback when the entire rest of the community is practically apoplectic about an issue. Obviously, I do not know for certain what the dev's feedback prioritization schema actually is, but rhetorically, the 1% should not be the first choice, but rather a choice.

TL;DR, "competitive players" should not be the preferred feedback source due to their niche nature.

Am I out of think with this reasoning?

You make perfect sense to me but my in my opinion, PGI doesn't seem to agree with you. I could be 100% wrong, but all I have to go off is my impressions of the game and their actions, I can't read their minds.

IMO, it seems they have tried to cater this game to the more "hardcore" crowd first when I think they should have tried to draw in the "casual" crowd first and then done things to make the "hardcore" crowd happy. Like I said, can't read their minds, only my impressions.

It seems that given their recent removal of RnR and adding the cadet bonus, they finally realized this and took a step towards changing gears. The question is, will it be enough? Personally, I think they should drastically cut MC prices, fix netcode, and add in a respawn option and/or get that dropship mutator out ASAP. That's just my two cents on the subject.

Edited by CypherHalo, 16 January 2013 - 10:27 AM.

[Flapdrol]

Grraarrgghh, on 16 January 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

Everything has been addressed and has proposed changes other than ECM, which PGI and most competitive players believe is fine.

Everyone who cries about ECM is a baby who hasn't played a competitive round in their life.

In competitive play there will never be big balance issues because both sides will run the overpowered setups and will adapt their builds to cover the weakness of their teammates, allowing them to run niche setups.

If you play in a pug you cant count on any of that, so I bring my ecm ddc with streaks, works pretty good agianst everything and is the only single mech hard counter to a 3L, brawler assaults may be able to take me down, but at least the pugs can hit those just fine. Is it the ecm, the streaks, the lagshield? those 3 things define pug games now, it's frustrating and people complain.

Edited by Flapdrol, 16 January 2013 - 10:35 AM.

[mekabuser]

So.... the department assigned to maps... Is it one guy with two broken arms..
WHat/ a year from now we will have 10 maps?? whoo hoo.. wow...
Half will suck. , player base bored.
Im not holding my breath on either of the next two being ..
GREAT!!!!!
Unless the guys a genius... It HAS to be ONE guy.. right... cant be more than one.. thats just silly . THey would have to be buggering off all day eh?
But he is not a genius, so you churn out maps, and hope you get lucky with a few.

Keep it fresh, but no.. lets just say how its beta...

[Greiva]

Really isnt in beta. Open beta is supposed to be the final beta test before release, however this game was nowhere near ready for open beta. Should have been in beta for at least another 6 months before going open.

Edited by Greiva, 16 January 2013 - 10:39 AM.

[Josef Nader]

mekabuser, on 16 January 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

So.... the department assigned to maps... Is it one guy with two broken arms..
WHat/ a year from now we will have 10 maps?? whoo hoo.. wow...
Half will suck. , player base bored.
Im not holding my breath on either of the next two being ..
GREAT!!!!!
Unless the guys a genius... It HAS to be ONE guy.. right... cant be more than one.. thats just silly . THey would have to be buggering off all day eh?
But he is not a genius, so you churn out maps, and hope you get lucky with a few.

Keep it fresh, but no.. lets just say how its beta...

Did we miss the part about maps having to be carefully playtested, balanced, rebuilt, redesigned, and gone over with a fine toothed comb by internal testers to make sure that people don't glitch through the ground and explode at random times? Or the part about a huge amount of new assets needed to make each map look unique, including textures, models, and whatnot? Or the part about all the need to make sure that the map is visually consistent in it's lighting and color correction? I suppose so.

Greiva, on 16 January 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

Really isnt in beta. Open beta is supposed to be the final beta test before release, however this game was nowhere near ready for open beta. Should have been in beta for at least another 6 months before going open.

The closed beta wasn't giving them enough information. They needed to get the game on as many different systems and configurations as possible, and they needed to have as many people playing as possible in order to speed up the mining of data. It is very much in beta.

[Grraarrgghh]

mekabuser, on 16 January 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

So.... the department assigned to maps... Is it one guy with two broken arms..
WHat/ a year from now we will have 10 maps?? whoo hoo.. wow...
Half will suck. , player base bored.
Im not holding my breath on either of the next two being ..
GREAT!!!!!
Unless the guys a genius... It HAS to be ONE guy.. right... cant be more than one.. thats just silly . THey would have to be buggering off all day eh?
But he is not a genius, so you churn out maps, and hope you get lucky with a few.

Keep it fresh, but no.. lets just say how its beta...

Dude, complete sentences. I don't understand your stream-of-consciousness rambling garbage.

[cyberFluke]

malibu43, on 16 January 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

So do you have sources that state that the thing holding up the release of new maps is texturing? My guess would be that design and 3D model of maps is wha takes a lot of time.

Then your guess is half wrong. Go play with the CryEngine Devkit if you don't believe me.

[Particle Man]

Tennex, on 16 January 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

no cuz there are other systems in place, for organized 8vs8 play besides getting 8 players together and hitting the launch button

I'm still curious to hear about these other ways to launch 8man teams! Last night my team played against Grraarrgghh's team in the RHOD tourney (non-trial mechs). In that tourney it's best 3 out of 5 to win. We got to our 4th match and couldnt for the life of us manage to drop against each other, for almost an hour. We finally managed to get it, but after both sides were fairly annoyed.

and funnily enough, their team wasnt 8 mechs with ECM, our team wasnt 8 mechs with ECM. No one on our team was crying about the ECMs, and i'm assuming that they werent crying about them either.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

Grraarrgghh, on 16 January 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Dude, complete sentences. I don't understand your stream-of-consciousness rambling garbage.

That pubbies can manage to place one letter after another is astounding.

[TheGunBunny]

Heres a thought, you are not testers, you are the tested. You play the game so they take feed back from how you play not what you say. You are part of the test, not taking it.

Edited by TheGunBunny, 16 January 2013 - 11:06 AM.

[Tennex]

Particle Man, on 16 January 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

and funnily enough, their team wasnt 8 mechs with ECM, our team wasnt 8 mechs with ECM. No one on our team was crying about the ECMs, and i'm assuming that they werent crying about them either.

can't say for sure valid these claims are from the self proclaimed professionals. Since you know, theres no elo system in place, to distinguish actual good people from bad. oops, wasn't phase 3 supposed to make it into the patch.

TheGunBunny, on 16 January 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Heres a thought, you are not testers, you are the tested. You play the game so they take feed back from how you play not what you say. You are part of the test, not taking it.

no. we are the test. And PGI are the test takers. and they've failed us - the test.

Edited by Tennex, 16 January 2013 - 11:15 AM.

[Silent]

This thread is terrible. Close the forums!

[Rannos]

Silent, on 16 January 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

This thread is terrible. Close the forums!

Edited by Rannos, 16 January 2013 - 11:16 AM.

[Josef Nader]

To TL;DR the entire thread, they aren't ignoring you. In fact, they're paying super-close attention to every game of MWO you play. Every kill you make, every death you take, every component you break, they'll be watching you.

What they -aren't- paying attention to is your massive rant on the forums about how they're incompetent baboons who don't know anything about proper balancing and they should totally listen to your 9 page dissertation on how they should do their jobs.