34 replies to this topic

[venomman2]

TL:DR though I encourage you to read the whole post
Random trial mech in your stable gets replaced with equivalent class clan mech. Clan mechs drop into special 8 vs. 8, clan vs. IS games where clanners faceroll the IS team and get rewarded with lots of general exp but no c-bills while IS is handsomely rewarded with c-bills and exp for damaging components and putting up the best fight they can.


What if... The early clan invasion is represented by a random chance for a trial mech to be replaced with an equivalent class clan mech. Between every drop, the client would dice roll to see if you get a clan replacement, and then roll on which class to replace for 2-3 drops. The chance to roll a clan replacement should be high enough that you can roll clan replacements at least once in an hour or two session.

Clan mechs would obviously need to drop together so we reach a dilemna regarding the balance of clan chassis, weapons, and tech against the IS.

Here's what I'm thinking: we don't. At least not yet. Import all the TT values just like IS started with and let clan mechs steamroll the IS team. There's no R&R right now so defeat really only hurts your pride. Keep the same 8 vs. 8 drops, Clan vs. IS, but with a temporary new game mode.

Clanner objective is to destory all IS mechs, which they are pretty much guaranteed to do with their vastly superior firepower. Give them general exp rewards but I personally belive there should not be any c-bill reward for clanners int his game mode.

IS objective? Go down fighting! Provide huge c-bill and exp bonuses for all the standard stuff like spotting, component destruction, kills, assits, etc. Also add bonuses for time survived. If the IS team can wipe out the clan team, they should be bathing in c-bills and exp. If not, they should still be getting enough reward from damge and components to make the black eye they just got totally worth it.

After a couple months, everyone will have had a chance to use clan tech and PGI will have plenty of combat data to look at for balancing purposes. At that point, we can look into adding clan chassis and weapons into the general population and begin the balancing project.

[Thirdstar]

venomman2, on 16 January 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

...................snip

You've put a lot of thought into this idea and that's admirable but there's no need to reinvent the wheel here. Your proposed solution is needlessly complicated.

Of the top of my head I can point out a bunch of issues.

What if a designated Clanner logs after he gets the replacement? What if he wants to make C-Bills? Does the system then reroll? How would it know anyway? If there are not enough Clanners won't that bog down the matchmaker moreso than it does now?

Edited by Thirdstar, 16 January 2013 - 10:54 PM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

While that would be a VERY interesting mechanic to have randoms become Clanners for a match -- but ANYTHING emphasizing imbalance in a strictly PvP environment is fundamentally flawed.

To solve the imbalance, you would need to change the way Clan Tech is (TT Clan is so stupidly OP that it just needs to be rewritten) or some type of mechanic like BV that matches Clan Light with IS Medium, Clan Mdium with IS Heavy Clan heavies with assaults, Clan Assaults with an IS Asslaut+ IS light or some other system, idk.

[Zulu Alpha Irish]

mmmm...very complex idea.

i suggest the invasion can be introduced using a new game mode "clan invasion - ASSAULT/CONQUEST/whatever" where the IS in greater numbers face less but more powerful clan mechs. Prior to this the the player must choose to be clan or IS (a permanent change linked to the account) and they can only use the associated mechs.

[Dirk Le Daring]

How about a mechanic where, say 5 clan mechs drop in the 8 man premades. By that I mean 5 clan mechs, 8 inner sphere. Or something along those lines.

[venomman2]

Thirdstar, on 16 January 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

You've put a lot of thought into this idea and that's admirable but there's no need to reinvent the wheel here. Your proposed solution is needlessly complicated.

Of the top of my head I can point out a bunch of issues.

What if a designated Clanner logs after he gets the replacement? What if he wants to make C-Bills? Does the system then reroll? How would it know anyway? If there are not enough Clanners won't that bog down the matchmaker moreso than it does now?

To oversimplify my solution, everybody gets to play an ubermech once a night (if they want) in a special bonus game where one side almost always loses but receives a nice fat paycheck to make up for it.

The logistics of such a solution wouldn't be so difficult. The game mode is derived from imbalance so remove the class-to-class match-up if necessary and meter the dice roll to maintain clan availabiliy to a certain percentage of players online at that time. If somebody logs when they just got availability or wants to continue earning c-bills, let them hang onto it for 48 hours then release it back into the pool.


EDIT: Want to add based on some comments before this post. Just because the combat is imbalanced, that does not necesarrily mean the game mode is imbalanced. The true "balance" here is acheived by the significantly higher c-bill and exp rewards for the IS team. Losing the battle but not the war, as it were. If the payout for losing the match is on par or higher than winning a regular match, does that not redefine the perception of what "winning" really is?

Edited by venomman2, 16 January 2013 - 11:14 PM.

[Splinters]

I would think the added bonus of killing a single target by yourself as a clanner be a bonus and focus firing be a penalty for every shot taken on a target that has a current clanner enagaged. If we're going to replicate the storyline might as well make it a full bonus/penalty system.

-S

[Aethon]

Splinters, on 16 January 2013 - 11:29 PM, said:

I would think the added bonus of killing a single target by yourself as a clanner be a bonus and focus firing be a penalty for every shot taken on a target that has a current clanner enagaged. If we're going to replicate the storyline might as well make it a full bonus/penalty system.

-S

That system goes right out the window the moment someone on the IS side breaks it. I will not maintain zellbrigen if my opponents focus fire; tech advantage or not, it would put my star/binary/whatever at a very big disadvantage.

I want good, balanced fights; I hate this 'Clans faceroll everyone in the IS for a month' system the OP described, but I also hate the Clans fighting the IS outnumbered AND with one hand tied behind their back. Making pinatas out of either side is never a good idea for a fun, balanced game.

[HC Harlequin]

mwhighlander, on 16 January 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

While that would be a VERY interesting mechanic to have randoms become Clanners for a match -- but ANYTHING emphasizing imbalance in a strictly PvP environment is fundamentally flawed.

To solve the imbalance, you would need to change the way Clan Tech is (TT Clan is so stupidly OP that it just needs to be rewritten) or some type of mechanic like BV that matches Clan Light with IS Medium, Clan Mdium with IS Heavy Clan heavies with assaults, Clan Assaults with an IS Asslaut+ IS light or some other system, idk.

Clan tech is balanced by Zelbrigan...

[Biruke]

what is so scary about the Clan mechs? Any comparison tables?

[Thirdstar]

Biruke, on 17 January 2013 - 12:56 AM, said:

what is so scary about the Clan mechs? Any comparison tables?

http://www.sarna.net...f_%28Mad_Cat%29

Note speed, firepower, armor.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Orion

Note speed, firepower armor.

We're getting the Orion at some point and the Timberwolf is too iconic to not show up in the game at some future point.

[Biruke]

Thirdstar, on 17 January 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

http://www.sarna.net...f_%28Mad_Cat%29

Note speed, firepower, armor.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Orion

Note speed, firepower armor.

We're getting the Orion at some point and the Timberwolf is too iconic to not show up in the game at some future point.

My 75 tonns Cataphract Ilya is almost the same in firepower and I'm sure I can deal with the clan mechs which will be overheating in two shots unless they have something else than the "double" heatsinks.
And My 60 tonn Dragon Flame can be compared to a timberwolf - 4 LLs, 81 km/h. I can just shoot the legs off, no problem.

I personally want a Marauder.

My build would be 4 LL's and an AC-20 (I can aim, belive me.). That's a can opener of my dream

[Kaijin]

Nothing would ruin my immersion more than Clanners shutting down all over the place because even their DHS suck in MWO.

[Biruke]

Kaijin, on 17 January 2013 - 01:25 AM, said:

Nothing would ruin my immersion more than Clanners shutting down all over the place because even their DHS suck in MWO.

that will be cool just wait it shoot two times and then come closer to get a better aim at the cockpit

[Herbstwind]

the idea with the trial mech exchanged for a clan mech sounds nice, but why make the drops 8vs8 and thus totally imbalanced? Just make those matches something along the lines of 5 Clanners vs 8 IS or something like that, just assuming that it would be the outcome of batchall.
Zellbrigen however could hardly be enforced in random matches like this - so I would say balancing by Batchall would be ok.



In addition, if PGI sticks to TT on this, Clan XL engines only have 2 engine criticals in each side torso, so if the RT or LT get shot off, the mech is still not out of action. Furthermore Clan weapons do more damage for less heat and/or weight and/or are smaller than their IS counterparts. Clan double heatsinks do only have two critical slots instead of three and so on - they are better in almost every aspect. The only balancing in the background of BT is that Clanners have a somewhat limited grasp on tactics and the "total war" idea

Edited by Herbstwind, 17 January 2013 - 01:56 AM.

[Corralis]

Biruke, on 17 January 2013 - 01:16 AM, said:

My 75 tonns Cataphract Ilya is almost the same in firepower and I'm sure I can deal with the clan mechs which will be overheating in two shots unless they have something else than the "double" heatsinks.
And My 60 tonn Dragon Flame can be compared to a timberwolf - 4 LLs, 81 km/h. I can just shoot the legs off, no problem.

I personally want a Marauder.

My build would be 4 LL's and an AC-20 (I can aim, belive me.). That's a can opener of my dream

75 ton Cataphract Ilya??? Which one is that and how did you put an extra 5 tons onto it?

[Vassago Rain]

Kaijin, on 17 January 2013 - 01:25 AM, said:

Nothing would ruin my immersion more than Clanners shutting down all over the place because even their DHS suck in MWO.

Freebirth scum! I'll annihilate you with my timber wofl! Slowly and methodically over several minutes, so I don't kill myself with overheats.

[Sears]

Best way to introduce the clans?

UrbanMech IIC

It would be balanced I guess.

[Biruke]

Corralis, on 17 January 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

75 ton Cataphract Ilya??? Which one is that and how did you put an extra 5 tons onto it?

is it 70? Ah, who cares?

Vassago Rain, on 17 January 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

Freebirth scum! I'll annihilate you with my timber wofl! Slowly and methodically over several minutes, so I don't kill myself with overheats.

timber woffle, you say? Oh, don't catch cold.

[Corralis]

Vassago Rain, on 17 January 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

Freebirth scum! I'll annihilate you with my timber wofl! Slowly and methodically over several minutes, so I don't kill myself with overheats.

Basically that is the way it's gonna go. One point everyone seems to be missing is that putting a bad player in a Clan mech isn't suddenly gonna make them a good player, there still gonna be a bad player in a mech that is going to be even herder to pilot.
I now know how the Clans lost the war, they let the MWO puggers pilot their mechs