71 replies to this topic

[SkyCake]

Dear Paul and David,

where we at with PPC's?? i can half understand the reason why heat was not adjusted on the ppc's, but i am struggling to understand as to why ERPPC remains so high for so long... bring the heat from 13 to 10 seems like a good change to make...

as well, when can we expect to test the emp effect being given to ppc's in general?

if we arent waiting for netcode to proceed with balance, then why so many patches without even a small heat adjustment on broken ERPPC's?

PS.. after a month plus of PPC builds, i think PPC as is, is balanced perfectly...

[8RoundsRapid]

Orthodontist, on 17 January 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

You know.

You should be quiet.

The game is FUN right now. I have many, many hours of enjoyment thus far into this game. Let them clean it up, right now the game IS playable.

Why should I be quiet? My question was a legit question. I was not rude, and I didn't tell anybody else what they should do.

I think you should be quiet.

Jerk.

[Antony Weiner]

Paul Inouye, on 17 January 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

It is myself and David B. who do the game balancing. Both of us are not programmers and you DEFINITELY don't want us playing with netcode. I'll let you and the rest of the community in on something. Netcode is our #1 priority on the engineering side of things. The guys working on netcode have touched nothing but netcode. They have nothing to do with game balancing or adding new mechs/maps/items. Their main focus is netcode. i.e. Finding problems, re-writing a LOT of code that is part of the engine and making sure it doesn't break anything back up the chain. This is a VERY long process and not something that is addressed in a few days or weeks for that matter.

Paul,

I think that OP did not imply that the same people who work on balancing could be working on netcode. He meant that balancing without proper netcode cannot be done properly. At least, it cannot be properly tested by your open beta players. So, without a working netcode, your balancing efforts are perceived by the majority as detrimental. In terms of content, more maps and game modes (does not depend on netcode) would have been received much better by the community than ecm and new mechs (depends on netcode).

[Mawai]

Nice to see Paul respond.

I have two quick comments ...

1) As far as I know the base CryEngine code is not designed to be server authoritative (one of the other devs made this comment in another thread) ... which means that PGI has to substantially modify the CryEngine netcode to support features like server-side rewinding or lag compensation to make it work better ... which needless to say is a lot of work.

2) However, since Paul is co-responsible for game balance ... I would like to politely point out the issue of ECM combined with SSRM on the Raven 3L and Commando 2D which IS ... in my opinion ... a serious balance issue

[pcunite]

Keep up the good work Paul, most of us completely understand the situation. Looking forward to every patch.

[Moriquendi86]

DragonsFire, on 17 January 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Paul may or may not respond, but speaking from a developer perspective as well, there are always unintended consequences of real world deployment vs lab/internal testing deployment. That is a huge and frustrating issue in any development cycle, and it goes right in hand with reproducing any issues seen in the real world but not in the lab.

It is incredibly frustrating to absolutely know that an issue exists, and not be able to reproduce it to be able to do a RCA (root cause analysis) and implement a fix, but it happens. I am encouraged by their current approach and I think that things will be working very well when the final product is delivered.

That is very true, some problems just couldn't be found in very low ping of local network with machines setup to play game in best way. Ofcourse there are some posibilities to emulate high ping or worse settings but they are very limted and only real and acurate way to test (unless you can spend millions of dolars on testing companies) is to play from various places on the globe with different ISP, different PC build, different firewals/antiviruses, different network devices etc, thats why they had closed and then open beta. I guess that one of the reasons to start open beta when it was started was because they knew that netcode needs fixing but they needed more data with more cases, otherwise they might have to rewrite it twice.

Other thing is more social issue. When "broken netcode" is common knowledge some people tend to ignore having terrible connection to their wi-fi or torrent program running somewhere in the network. They think that it's all developers foult and they are not trying to fix issue on their side or they are not willing to aknowledge that their ISP sucks and provides bad connection. In worst case scenario people will try to exploit issue and blame it on devs.

[Trauglodyte]

RynCage, on 17 January 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

You seem a bit upset Paul. Also, you and David are awful at your job of "balancing".

Leave it to one person to **** in an otherwise good thread. I swear, I really mourn the species sometimes.

[SkyCake]

Mawai, on 17 January 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

2) However, since Paul is co-responsible for game balance ... I would like to politely point out the issue of ECM combined with SSRM on the Raven 3L and Commando 2D which IS ... in my opinion ... a serious balance issue

netcode is the answer to this... the best thing you can do right now is learn 2 aim and learn 2 team... but ya once netcode is tight, killing ravens with AC20's will be trivial (for some it already is), and you'll wonder why everyone used to make such a big deal out of it... ECM is fine, Streaks are fine...

[3rdworld]

SkyCake, on 17 January 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

netcode is the answer to this... the best thing you can do right now is learn 2 aim and learn 2 team... but ya once netcode is tight, killing ravens with AC20's will be trivial (for some it already is), and you'll wonder why everyone used to make such a big deal out of it... ECM is fine, Streaks are fine...

streaks are only fine because ecm exists, and the mechs that have the ability to carry them en masse don't have ecm.

[Mechteric]

Too many back seat drivers in this forum

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 17 January 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[Vila deVere]

RynCage, on 17 January 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

You seem a bit upset Paul. Also, you and David are awful at your job of "balancing".

I'd disagree. I'd say the game ain't bad in the balance department, EXCEPT for the case of overpowered lights. They are farkin' ridiculous. But everything else is not terrible, even if it needs a bit work (like PPCs needing a tweak to be really viable).

[3rdworld]

Vila deVere, on 17 January 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

I'd disagree. I'd say the game ain't bad in the balance department, EXCEPT for the case of overpowered lights. They are farkin' ridiculous. But everything else is not terrible, even if it needs a bit work (like PPCs needing a tweak to be really viable).

Half the weapons aren't worth using and much more than half the mechs.

what game are you playing?

[RickySpanish]

Orthodontist, on 17 January 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

You know.

You should be quiet.

The game is FUN right now. I have many, many hours of enjoyment thus far into this game. Let them clean it up, right now the game IS playable.

The large bold text made me read that in a Bane voice.

[Vila deVere]

SkyCake, on 17 January 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

netcode is the answer to this... the best thing you can do right now is learn 2 aim and learn 2 team... but ya once netcode is tight, killing ravens with AC20's will be trivial (for some it already is), and you'll wonder why everyone used to make such a big deal out of it... ECM is fine, Streaks are fine...

Maybe... but to keep introducing more light 'mechs into a game with a problem which gives lights a distinct advantage is perplexing. Why would you amplify a problem by emphasizing it?

[siLve00]

3rdworld, on 17 January 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

streaks are only fine because ecm exists, and the mechs that have the ability to carry them en masse don't have ecm.

thats your pov.
Before ECM ssrm were fine ( to me ) and even with knockdown ssrm were fine ( to me ).

edit ;

3rdworld, on 17 January 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

Half the weapons aren't worth using and much more than half the mechs.

what game are you playing?

serious dude.. i wanted to be nice.. but it seems more you just need to learn to play.

Edited by siLve00, 17 January 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[Vila deVere]

3rdworld, on 17 January 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

Half the weapons aren't worth using and much more than half the mechs.

what game are you playing?

I manage some success, so I assume I'm doing something right. I've seen successful pilots in every 'mech chassis. And some weapons are less useful than others, but that was true of the TT game as well, and in the real world, some weapons are better than others. In MWO's "everybody is a unique snowflake" world where we can use whatever 'Mech we want with whatever equipment, with no cost to upkeep and repair, it's natural that only the best performers get used.

[Mawai]

SkyCake, on 17 January 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

netcode is the answer to this... the best thing you can do right now is learn 2 aim and learn 2 team... but ya once netcode is tight, killing ravens with AC20's will be trivial (for some it already is), and you'll wonder why everyone used to make such a big deal out of it... ECM is fine, Streaks are fine...

I guess we will agree to disagree then.

Netcode improvements may make a difference ... perhaps they will resolve the issue. However, I am not confident of that since these will still be small fast mechs which are supposed to be more difficult to hit. If light mechs become too easy to hit as a result of netcode improvements - then they won't be viable - and fast mediums will take over the scouting role and it will have a significant impact on overall game balance. If fast light mechs remain somewhat difficult to hit then ones with ECM and the guaranteed hit and damage of SSRM will remain overpowered compared to all the rest.

Finally, in the meantime, we have an imbalanced situation where 3Ls and 2D substantially outperform any other light mech choice.

[3rdworld]

Vila deVere, on 17 January 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

I manage some success, so I assume I'm doing something right. I've seen successful pilots in every 'mech chassis. And some weapons are less useful than others, but that was true of the TT game as well, and in the real world, some weapons are better than others. In MWO's "everybody is a unique snowflake" world where we can use whatever 'Mech we want with whatever equipment, with no cost to upkeep and repair, it's natural that only the best performers get used.

Then why balance the game at all? Lets just accept that half the assets in the game are trash and stick to those that are good.

[Comassion]

Paul Inouye, on 17 January 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

It is myself and David B. who do the game balancing. Both of us are not programmers and you DEFINITELY don't want us playing with netcode. I'll let you and the rest of the community in on something. Netcode is our #1 priority on the engineering side of things. The guys working on netcode have touched nothing but netcode. They have nothing to do with game balancing or adding new mechs/maps/items. Their main focus is netcode. i.e. Finding problems, re-writing a LOT of code that is part of the engine and making sure it doesn't break anything back up the chain. This is a VERY long process and not something that is addressed in a few days or weeks for that matter.

My heart goes out to those programmers.

Guys, rewriting the game engine that your company bought and paid for is NOT FUN.

[Pando]

Comassion, on 17 January 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

My heart goes out to those programmers.

Guys, rewriting the game engine that your company bought and paid for is NOT FUN.

^ this.