153 replies to this topic

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Kylere, on 21 January 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

You are aware of just how phallic that sounds right?

Yes.

Are you sure you are aware of how to play this game?

[Jacmac]

ReD3y3, on 18 January 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

Meh you clearly havnt played many top tier 8 mans. I feel like you are talking in hypotheticals.

How would you or I know what the tiers are for 8-mans? Nobody can control who they play. The only teams I know I've played before are the Goons since they announce their presence every time. You can feel however you like, but I'm speaking in terms of my experience in 8-mans. Your mileage may vary, but my 8-man experience in the last 20 or so drops has been that the teams we have had the most trouble with are the teams that are built specifically for close range brawling.

Edited by Jacmac, 21 January 2013 - 02:01 PM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Jacmac, on 21 January 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

Nobody can control who they play.

Yes you can

[Jacmac]

DV McKenna, on 21 January 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

Yes you can

Please enlighten me with something more than a 6-year-old answer.

[Quazil]

8 man is dead for now and have been for some time - they wrecked it.

We played some rounds the other day and was only one other unit even running an 8 man team.

A couple of our guys got their panties in a bunch because the other team was running an all ECM team, 5 D-DC's and 3 3L's but I was kinda like ... well all this means is *they* aren't r*tards.

LRM's remain viable fire-support in team-play. They're just not stupid-crazy-OP anymore.

Edited by Quazil, 21 January 2013 - 02:15 PM.

[Jacmac]

Quazil, on 21 January 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

8 man is dead for now and have been for some time - they wrecked it.

We played some rounds the other day and was only one other unit even running an 8 man team.

A couple of our guys got their panties in a bunch because the other team was running an all ECM team, 5 D-DC's and 3 3L's.

LRM's remain viable fire-support in team-play. They're just not stupid-crazy-OP anymore.

Well my experience hasn't been quite that extreme, but 3 ECM Ravens + 2 ECM Atlas'; that's pretty close to what I usually see. The rest are a mix of mediums and heavies. Above all, find the enemy and engage them at close range with SRMs, AC20s, UAC5's, etc.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Jacmac, on 21 January 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

Please enlighten me with something more than a 6-year-old answer.

RHOD has been using 8 man sync drops for some time to pair two teams that enter the que at the same time together, it's how we play our pre-arranged opponents.

Recently a couple of teams found a way of ensuring the sync between 2 8 mans 100% of the time, by clearing the que with a third 8 man team.

I sugar coated it as much as i could, wouldn't want to step above the 6 year intelligence marker for you.

Edited by DV McKenna, 21 January 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[Jacmac]

You can try things like that, but for the rest of the player-base out there, your "trick" doesn't separate you from them (or rank your play better in any way). I supposed we could arrange matches against teams using something like that, but how do you really know how good you are if you know who you will be facing? Anyway, PGI needs to actually set this up, otherwise it's not really impartial. A closed sample set will lead to skewed conclusions.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Jacmac, on 21 January 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

You can try things like that, but for the rest of the player-base out there, your "trick" doesn't separate you from them (or rank your play better in any way). I supposed we could arrange matches against teams using something like that, but how do you really know how good you are if you know who you will be facing? Anyway, PGI needs to actually set this up, otherwise it's not really impartial. A closed sample set will lead to skewed conclusions.

Hahah, clearly the answer was too complex.
I know how good we are because of the teams win ratio. Syncing 8 man drops means i know we'll be facing like minded, competitive co-ordinated teams like SJR,Kaos,Goons,Luna Wolves etc who actually have some skill and are a challenge to play against, compared to the general 8 man or 4 man PUG que.

It's gonna sound bad, and i don't know weather you actually play with anyone, but im more than accommodating to set up some 8 vs 8 games with you and some friends if it helps you understand the difference.

Edited by DV McKenna, 21 January 2013 - 02:40 PM.

[Protection]

Snow Raven is an excellent team.

[Mechrophilia]

Sahoj, on 17 January 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Map has a decided influence.

This nails it in my opinion.

[Alaric the Arcane]

Jacmac, on 21 January 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

but how do you really know how good you are if you know who you will be facing?

The fu ck??

Edited by Alaric the Arcane, 21 January 2013 - 02:53 PM.

[TVMA Doc]

ICEFANG13, on 17 January 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

Per what PGI says. ECM isn't extremely prevalent in 8 mans.

It isn't, from my experience at least. One team usually sees none of "extrememly non-prevalent" ECM, while the other team typically has at least 3-4.

[Corvus Antaka]

Jacmac, on 17 January 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

Don't bother giving an opinion if you play 4-man slop most of the time, 8-mans are a totally different animal.

My unit tries to play a balanced match, but I noticed that the opponents we face are usually made up like the following:

2-3 Atlas D-DCs
2-3 Raven 2Ls
2-4 specialized units (e.g. 2 SRM Cats, 2 Gauss Cats, Fast Awesomes, Ilya-Muromets, 6 PPC or 4x SRM6 Stalker, sometimes a Cicada 3M, etc.)

In most cases the 8-mans are geared with weapons toward forcing a close range game and at least 4-5 ECM units, sometimes 6. AC20s & SRMs are dominant. They maneuver to close in on our team and if we do not engage or are set up for a long range defense, then they tend to base rush (which pretty much forces us to try base rushing or playing the close range game).

Is the long range game dead or at least should be a distant second to the medium to short range game? I struggle with other teammates sense of how the game should work vs how it does in fact work.

This pretty much is just the way the game is now due to ECM, and hopefully something we will see fixes for in the future. I think in general SSRMS, LRMS and ECM are all in need of the most working right now. Missiles need to track realistically and should be dodgeable & evadable with jumpjets and cleaver maneuver as much as with cover, instead of the godmode guns they are right now with locks.

[Kylere]

DV McKenna, you seem to feel that playing all the Mech games gives you some sort of knowledge. I broke the shrinkwrap on the TT game in the early 80's and have played every mech game since. I hate to break the bad news to you, but you only impress yourself by bragging about your "long" experience.

[Kriestov]

Short answer as in regards to the OP. No, Long range isn't dead. LRM's are fairly awful though. ECM isn't mandatory, but with the netcode in shambles, playing anything other than a heavily stacked ECM Light Lance is akin to suicide. That'll change once they fix the netcode. Jenners will go back to buzzsawing everything.


Most ways of playing are generally effective given a decent level or cooridination. Whether it be brawling, or sniping. Most of the top tiered teams within RHOD are sniper heavy. We fancy ourselves aggressive brawlers, and it's worked to our advantage in general. But It's also worked to our detriment as teams have come to understand our "Art of War" as we play fairly consistantly. Long story short, it comes down to player skill, tools (in regards to mech standarization), chemistry (minimum level of expectation between players and their DC), confidence (killer instinct/winning attitude) and flexibility. Even though we're more aggresive in our play, we do have some great snipers.


P.S. McKenna, there is a reason I don't post on the MWO forums very often. This is one of those reasons. You can come from a position of strengh, and talk until your blue in the face and it won't make a bit of difference.

Edited by Kriestov, 22 January 2013 - 05:57 AM.

[chiXnhawk]

Kriestov, on 22 January 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

Even though we're more aggresive in our play, we do have some great snipers.

He means me... Machine maybe...

[4er3BaPa]

With current weapon balance and bugs couple with ECM cover, long range missile support is dead.
Only in random match you can use this LRM support role... 8-pre don't fight without ECM now.
Need to limit in matchmaker ECM mech in each teams... Now i see 7 ECM mech in one team (2 x 4-pre may be) against no-ECM half-trials teams.

[chiXnhawk]

I don't get it. ECM just matters in the light battle. In 8's in games that matter no one brings LRM's. ECM doen't mean anything. I can still see you with me eyes. thermal , night vision. ECM dosen't make you invisible. Coms are the counter to ECM. That and direct fire weapons. Once the net code is fixed ECM will not be OP. It will be managable. Then Jenners will be the raven counter.

[Broceratops]

I have a lot of respect for the organized 8 mans out there. This game makes it hard to have a good game and incredibly easy to stomp pugs, so the groups which are doing hours of 8 man every day in this meta are the kind of players you really want to be with.


As for this whole thread, this is the reason we need some sort of rating system (and then also a system where we can arrange 8's, as the current sync drop will be really hit or miss). Rather than wasting 5 pages debating, the discussion can be ended with the good ol 1400 NOOB GET BACK TO ME WHEN YOU HIT 1600.