153 replies to this topic

[Andrew Cranston]

DV McKenna, on 17 January 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

Long Range, aside from LRM's is not dead by any means.

I don't know, I feel like the lack of LRM's has a detrimental effect on long range direct fire. It just doesn't take very long to close with an enemy, especially if you don't have to worry about getting rained on as you close. I think PPC/ER heat and the fragility of gauss rifles in addition to ECM has made short range weaponry much more efficient and more forgiving.

Larger maps and additional modules might shift the balance back a little bit though.

[Alaric the Arcane]

Run Hot or Die!

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Jacmac, on 17 January 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

How do you qualify that? Have you won an 8-man match long range recently? I would not say there are no long range shot traded, but most of the team I've faced have tried to specifically force a short range brawl. Caustic is the only map where you can not really force it all of the time because there is so much room. On this map, we find many teams try to get away with a base rush if they can't force a short range brawl.

Have i played an 8 man recently?

Why yes i have, it's the only interesting aspect of this game, we are a long range game play team, it's what we do, it's entirely based on your positioning and pressure you generate, if you have good light and medium pilots ie mechs that can't really do long range, they make for excellent meat shields while the rest of the range team blast them to pieces.
As alluded too by a previous poster, most of the teams competing in RHOD at least the good ones, are very sniper heavy.
And yes..we win our games 99% of the time.

Andrew Cranston, on 17 January 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

I don't know, I feel like the lack of LRM's has a detrimental effect on long range direct fire. It just doesn't take very long to close with an enemy, especially if you don't have to worry about getting rained on as you close. I think PPC/ER heat and the fragility of gauss rifles in addition to ECM has made short range weaponry much more efficient and more forgiving.

Larger maps and additional modules might shift the balance back a little bit though.

The key to a long range game here in MWO, is co-ordinated positional based play, with a hint of co-ordinated fire.
Honestly if you could hear the way our DC barks out orders..you'd think we were in the russian army.

Edited by DV McKenna, 17 January 2013 - 04:18 PM.

[idle crow]

The reason you see so much brawling is the list of ECM mechs favor brawling. D-DC is no RS when it comes to direct fire range loadouts.

ECM Is also most effective within 180m to cause confusion.

The reason for a base cap is to force the other team into coming into your range. The other possible reason, if contact is not made already then you may see 8 enemy mechs on your cap any second.

Lastly but not least of all "net code".

As a team that prefers long range movement based play. Team Death match and larger maps can't come soon enough.

[TwisTed94]

xZaOx, on 17 January 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

Ugh.....if you look at any of the top tiered teams, they are all sniper heavy. Sept us, cuz we like to brawl.

Where do I find the Tiers for rating teams?

[Vassago Rain]

DV McKenna, on 17 January 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

The key to a long range game here in MWO, is co-ordinated positional based play, with a hint of co-ordinated fire.
Honestly if you could hear the way our DC barks out orders..you'd think we were in the russian army.

This is how you get results. We call the position 'warboss' in Kong.

TwisTed94, on 17 January 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Where do I find the Tiers for rating teams?

You ask someone who actually plays 8 manz.

[h00n]

Long range was killed with the multiple changes to LRMs and the double of armor.

[Vassago Rain]

h00n, on 17 January 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Long range was killed with the multiple changes to LRMs and the double of armor.

Is that why over half my kills are from large lasers and gauss rifle shots? LRMs are bad. They can only ever do stuff at range, while other weapons with great range work just as well at spitting distance.

[Davers]

Vassago Rain, on 17 January 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:

Is that why over half my kills are from large lasers and gauss rifle shots? LRMs are bad. They can only ever do stuff at range, while other weapons with great range work just as well at spitting distance.

LRMs hit far more often in MWO than in TT. And 1.8 damage by itself almost makes up the difference in armor. The only thing keeping LRMs from being God Weapons is their spread.

[Vassago Rain]

Davers, on 17 January 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

LRMs hit far more often in MWO than in TT. And 1.8 damage by itself almost makes up the difference in armor. The only thing keeping LRMs from being God Weapons is their spread.

Doesn't matter one bit.
Go drop into 8 manz. You'll see just how godlike LRMs are.

[ICEFANG13]

ECM is the name of the game in 8 mans, LRMs in 8 mans are very lacking.

[Vassago Rain]

ICEFANG13, on 17 January 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

ECM is the name of the game in 8 mans, LRMs in 8 mans are very lacking.

No, it's not. It's 'firepower and formations.'ECM is a very useful tool, but it's not something you absolutely need.

[Davers]

Vassago Rain, on 17 January 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

Doesn't matter one bit. Go drop into 8 manz. You'll see just how godlike LRMs are.

They ain't. I know.

[ICEFANG13]

Why are LRMs so useless in 8 mans, when they have such high power and can fire indirectly? It must be because everyone just sits in one spot all game and doesn't move forward?

[Vassago Rain]

ICEFANG13, on 17 January 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

Why are LRMs so useless in 8 mans, when they have such high power and can fire indirectly? It must be because everyone just sits in one spot all game and doesn't move forward?

It takes time for the missiles to hit, and they warn people that they're INCOMING.
You can't use them up close, at all.
They spread their damage all over the target.
Ammo is heavy, and so are the launchers.

It's because we know how the game works. LRMs were a bad idea even before ECM got introduced, We'd just drop into cover, so the lock was lost.

[Davers]

ICEFANG13, on 17 January 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

Why are LRMs so useless in 8 mans, when they have such high power and can fire indirectly? It must be because everyone just sits in one spot all game and doesn't move forward?

LRM damage is VERY spread out, especially compared to TT. Plus it is blocked by ECM. Using TAG to target enemies or getting LOS to use Artemis exposes you to more concentrated enemy fire. Add in the min range of LRMs and you end up with a decent support weapon, but not one you can go toe to toe with gauss, PPCs, or ERLL.

[Lukoi Banacek]

I guess we can argue anecdotal experiences like they are statistics all day ("ECM makes the map smaller," vs "position makes long range play viable," etc etc -- and have we even defined what LR is? I guess not), but ultimately until statistics are up or trackable, it's really just one person's experience vs another.

In my experience, long range combat is easily avoided. In CSR's they say they are having a better time of it. Guess we'll have to wait and see how the game develops and see if statistics are ever something we can mine as a player base to get the truth of it eh?

[Barnaby Jones]

ICEFANG13, on 17 January 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

Per what PGI says. ECM isn't extremely prevalent in 8 mans.

Can I get your source on that...

[Bunko]

No.

LRMs are not dead because of TAG improvements but much less than before ECM.

Direct Fire Long Range sniping is increasing due to ECM.

[Jacmac]

Vassago Rain, on 17 January 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

No, it's not. It's 'firepower and formations.'ECM is a very useful tool, but it's not something you absolutely need.

Uhh, that is just wrong. I would like to see your team go in without ECM. You would be utterly destroyed.

Edited by Jacmac, 17 January 2013 - 05:37 PM.