103 replies to this topic

[Monsoon]

Fergrim, on 18 January 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

Okay, since we've all started playing games, we've all known that a ping much higher than 100 for any action game is going to be awful for said game.

In a usual game that I join, I see at least a third of the latencies in the range of 180-200. Lag shielded mechs are not shielded by the netcode, they are shielded by the fact that their pilot is in freaking Norway!

It's not lag shielded ravens you hate, it's Norwegian ones.

Hate to break it to you, but countries like Norway, Finland and Sweden have better infrastructure then the USA does. It's not the Norwegians it's the folks in Montana, Idaho and Wyoming that are probably more of a problem. Essentially the more remote they are the worse the infrastructure is likely to be in that state.

Edited by Monsoon, 18 January 2013 - 10:48 PM.

[Fate 6]

Ranzear, on 18 January 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

With proper prediction and correction, which is mostly a well coded server, latency should not be an issue or even visible to 90% of players. The server looks at your ping and looks at when you fired your weapons on your end and rolls back the tape to check if you should have hit someone despite your latency.

Wanna know why Counter Strike was one of the most popular FPS ever? Because it was one of the first games with lag correction. What you shot is what you got. This is what MWO (rather, the current Crytek engine) lacks more than ten years later.

This.

I shouldn't be looking at my 3 SRM6's all hit someone in the back and get no hit markers. Or watching my AC explode on someones chest and deal no damage. That's an issue with the code. My ping is around 30-50, I should be hitting what I see.

[BunnyWabbit]

Honestly this game does not have bad netcode.You want to see bad netcode go play continent of the ninth seal and try to pvp. I have <40 ping at all times (minnesota) and never find myself saying "wdf I hit that guy but he didnt die". Literally never. I have seen guys warping and teleporting but it is entirely because they have over 200 ping and I understand the fact that having a higher latency affords you some unique privileges and drawbacks. The only way in which they (pgi) could fix netcode would be to override the laggier players latency with the lower ping players hit detection. I. E. if I hit you on my screen at 10 ping your taking the damage regardless of where you were on your screen at the time because your ping is >10. Inherently this would create its own problems and the community would whine about that as well.

Right now there is a good balance between averaging the lower players ping and the higher players ping. People whine about this but having twice as many maps is more important than compensating for the 200+ ping **** who's trying to play on NA servers and thinks its the bad netcode making his hit approximations off.

Understand your ping is holding you back not the games netcode. If you have over 50 ping you are handicapping yourself and should expect not all hits to register. You can see this playing any game even in cs source. The fact that players find this an issue over that we only have 4 maps to me is really infuriating.

[Haakon Magnusson]

Living in euro zone as well, I'd kill for a local server... being stuck in 130ms ping is less than fun.

But I fear it will nto change, we are such an excellent test group for netcode etc. improvements
Not fun at all... and might even turn away some prosepective players when timeframe for getting nicer pings is completely up in the air.

[Raidyr]

Zero Neutral, on 18 January 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

Some people will not cease to complain. Netcode is not going to change that.

Improved netcode will make the game seem like it came out in 2012 though, instead of 2003.

[ParasiteX]

Why does everyone who has no clue about netcode programming, think they are suddenly an expert on the subject?

With the way PGI are gonna implement their netcode fixes, it wont matter if you have 10ms or 1000ms. You will still be able to hit, whatever you shoot at. And you'll be at equal playing fields, with the way the server will sync your positions, and from where you fire from. And no, it wont delay anyone either.

But it can lead to some odd behavior. Like you ducking into cover, but still getting shot. As for a person shooting you with higher ping, you may still be in his sights, even if you got into cover. But you can essentially do the same thing, even if your opponent has higher ping than you.

It may sound like magic to some of you. But i can assure you, that once they got the netcode sorted out properly. It will almost feel like magic in comparision to now.

And no freakin way we scandinavians get 180-200ms.. Our infrastructure is way better than that. I live in Sweden and get at most 110-120ms on VDSL. A friend who lives way up in the country uses 4G, and only gets 150ms at most.

Edited by ParasiteX, 19 January 2013 - 03:54 AM.

[marauder612]

unless things have changed PGI have stated they plan a euro server
what they have not made statements on is whether or not there will be a SEA server for those in the GMT +7 to + 11 area

playing with 250ms + pings against NA with 30ms is no fun at all
at least there is half chance against euros running 120ms pings

[Erihs]

ParasiteX, on 19 January 2013 - 03:39 AM, said:

And no freakin way we scandinavians get 180-200ms.. Our infrastructure is way better than that. I live in Sweden and get at most 110-120ms on VDSL. A friend who lives way up in the country uses 4G, and only gets 150ms at most.

Cute how you speak for whole Scandinavia, but the fact of the matter is, it depends. I live northern Finland, I ping 150-160 to this game. 60-90 to LoL EUW. There's not a whole lot of choice for ISP (2 in this town) and I got the juicier line of that, 24/1.

This game was not enjoyable to play with the state as it is now. We're talking modern game and I'd have to guesstimate where this enemy drawn on my screen really is drawn and then lead that phantom image for shots that don't have travel time. I don't know, to me that sounds pre 2000 stuff. I simply chose not to take part anymore, when there's similar games that function like you'd expect at 2013 (Planetside, I can play US server without problems).

What strikes me worst about MWO is to see all these legendary founders and such from europe, and the fact their freemium model is active and taking in payments, while the game feels, plays and behaves like a tech demo at this point. I know, it's beta. Beta that has freemium open and people paid to participate (founders). I feel sad for them. Well, I can only vote with my time and wallet and it's heading towards SOE and planetside rather, even though their prices are almost as bad ripoff as these. Fortunately they sometimes have the 3x days where you get 3 times the spacebucks for your real money.

Oh and I'd like to also remind everyone who love the game, play the game and want it to succeed: Freemium model requires a big playerbase of f2p to sustain those who spend money, sub or single payments. If the game dries out of f2p folks, you won't have people to play against. Alienating the f2p is never good if you want the game to succeed.

[Horned Bull]

before migration to the new engine the lagshield wasn't as severe as it's now. Therefore I think we can't completely blame latency for the lagshield.

[Zaptruder]

It is entirely possible to design server infrastructure that allows for a united player pool but with localized servers nonetheless.

i.e. you simply have a match making server that determines player loads by region - if the player loads for a region is high, it'll match players by region. If the region is low, then it'll bring those players into the general pool.

Duh.

[Whompity]

I'm far from a veteran, but so far I'm having OK luck hitting the smaller mechs, with few exceptions. Question... the ping times... is that from you-to-server and server-to-you? I consistently show 40-50ms... might that have something to do with being able to hit the small stuff?

I get rubber-banding but VERY very rarely.

Edited by Olivia Maybach, 19 January 2013 - 05:15 AM.

[elbloom]

you hit the nail on the head Olivia the higher your latency, the more you have to lead (guess) your targets. Needless to say over 200ms you have to be pretty psychic

[MWHawke]

Fergrim, on 18 January 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

Zero, Yes, you speak truth again. Fixing the netcode is the troubleshooter/smart programmer best first way to go about improving hit registration across the board :]

Man, the two of us together make the coolest and nicest dude in the room

And MWHawke, I'm sorry for my tone regarding people who play with higher latency. I actually have played at the 200+ms mark quite a bit, as often someone is destroying my internet connection just to make me mad..

And even the slightest bit of warping and rubber banding make me rage quit pretty quickly.

But basically it sounds to me as if you've adjusted and figured out ways to still have a good time. A more geographically local server (once the game is already otherwise finished) would probably be amazing for you.

For me, I generally ping at around 60, I never have any issue hitting a mech that isn't lagging. Buttttt in the meantime, hopefully the netcode fix will give us a smoother, better playing game to boot.

Hopefully, in my opinion, their net-code fix will finally put laggers at a disadvantage rather than a warping advantage.

I'm making a short movie to show PGI the result after patch.

[MWHawke]

Raidyr, on 19 January 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

Improved netcode will make the game seem like it came out in 2012 though, instead of 2003.

Try 1991..

[ShotDoc]

A big problem I have with this game after trying it for awhile now is how it seems to gives an advantage to those who have terrible ping yet move fast, but those with a decent ping and connection are somewhat screwed by the fact their still able to be hit easily by those with terrible ping because they themselves are not lagging and porting about which in a game that has FPS elements it's kind of unacceptable.

I get how they don't want to discourage people from playing their game with bad or distant connections and use alot of client side data for hit detection calculations (Far too much much IMO but w/e most devs do that these days in an attempt to get around a worldwide player base without setting up multiple server farms on different continents) but it allows for things like 'lagswitching' to just near exploiting of this games poor net-code with a small fast moving mechs + bad ping.

All I can say is that I hope they realize they need to prioritize their work on their net-code more then anything else.

[Opus]

And here we go again

[Ghogiel]

Fergrim, on 18 January 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

My main point however, you can't fix 200+ms with better netcode, give the euros their own server.

Europeans have 100-150ms pings FYI. The Asians and Aussies have 200+ms pings.

[zmeul]

MagicHamsta, on 18 January 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

You has no idea how software/programming in general works, do you?

right ... I don't?
and by any chance, why I am a programmer?!

Edited by zmeul, 20 January 2013 - 02:43 PM.

[jakucha]

Ranzear, on 18 January 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

With proper prediction and correction, which is mostly a well coded server, latency should not be an issue or even visible to 90% of players. The server looks at your ping and looks at when you fired your weapons on your end and rolls back the tape to check if you should have hit someone despite your latency.

Wanna know why Counter Strike was one of the most popular FPS ever? Because it was one of the first games with lag correction. What you shot is what you got. This is what MWO (rather, the current Crytek engine) lacks more than ten years later.

Hitscan doesn't have weapon trajectory/bullet physics and more complicated stuff, so it is not useful in games that want that sort of thing. I don't want my ballistic weapons instantly hitting the target the entire map away as soon as I click fire, because that's what you're going to get if you're comparing it to counter strike. Doesn't work well on bigger maps.

Edited by jakucha, 20 January 2013 - 02:50 PM.

[The Cheese]

Hey look, someone says that the netcode is fine. I guess the dev team can just stop working on it.