63 replies to this topic

[CancR]

1) Make streaks their own hard-point, Limiting the amount of streaks a mech can have.
2) Cool down time after firing where you have to get a lock after each shot which you can only start getting after the weapon has fully cooled down.
3) Increase tonnage and decrease how fast SRMS cooldown and widen spread to be about the same as SRMS
4)Tighten the hitbox for locking on, and break the lock the second the cross hair leaves the box the lock is gone.

CancR

[Syllogy]

CancR, on 18 January 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

1) Make streaks their own hard-point, Limiting the amount of streaks a mech can have.
2) Cool down time after firing where you have to get a lock after each shot which you can only start getting after the weapon has fully cooled down.
3) Increase tonnage and decrease how fast SRMS cooldown and widen spread to be about the same as SRMS
4)Tighten the hitbox for locking on, and break the lock the second the cross hair leaves the box the lock is gone.

CancR

I see no arguments that show why they are overpowered.

[CancR]

-Streak have less tonnage even with ammo then a ppc
-2 Streaks generate less heat then a ppc
-2 streaks does the same damage as a ppc
-2 streaks wont ever miss regardless of player skill (or lack there of)
-2 streaks can be fired at a faster rate then a ppc with out even having to think about aiming to hit the target
-2 streaks will always hit CT regardless of player skill (or lack there of)
-2 streaks can't be nullified by target's skill (dodging and weaving)

In short; Streaks offer a consistent stream of damage with next to 0 skill to use. They are the noob tube or ling rush of mechwarrior They might not max out the damage a mech is capable of, but it allows enough damage to get the killing blow anyway, and do it with no effort allowed on the users part.

This goes deeply against the spirit of the game of MW/BT. Even though there cant be an 1:1 conversion, people who want the game to be more like battle tech want to see a equal risk to reward for every weapon, ,and no ecm is not a counterbalance to SSRMS as 1) more mechs can carry streaks then ecm AND 2) mechs that carry ecm can also carry streaks making the games into an arms race. Which they said in closed beta they wanted to get rid of.

If you look at how streaks function I don't see how you can say they are balanced.

[VxSPEC]

CancR, on 18 January 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

-Streak have less tonnage even with ammo then a ppc
-2 Streaks generate less heat then a ppc
-2 streaks does the same damage as a ppc
-2 streaks wont ever miss regardless of player skill (or lack there of)
-2 streaks can be fired at a faster rate then a ppc with out even having to think about aiming to hit the target
-2 streaks will always hit CT regardless of player skill (or lack there of)
-2 streaks can't be nullified by target's skill (dodging and weaving)

In short; Streaks offer a consistent stream of damage with next to 0 skill to use. They are the noob tube or ling rush of mechwarrior They might not max out the damage a mech is capable of, but it allows enough damage to get the killing blow anyway, and do it with no effort allowed on the users part.

This goes deeply against the spirit of the game of MW/BT. Even though there cant be an 1:1 conversion, people who want the game to be more like battle tech want to see a equal risk to reward for every weapon, ,and no ecm is not a counterbalance to SSRMS as 1) more mechs can carry streaks then ecm AND 2) mechs that carry ecm can also carry streaks making the games into an arms race. Which they said in closed beta they wanted to get rid of.

If you look at how streaks function I don't see how you can say they are balanced.

I completely agree

Streaks always hit in a Certain spot or group together at one point, the streaks need to be weaker, or they need to be even less effective when going against someone who has an Anti-missle system. Against streaks an AMS is almost competely useless, sense there are only two streak missles, and a butt load of AMS amo with extremely fast fire why can't it stop just two missles before they hit you. So I'm saying that either the AMS needs to be improved or the power or accuracy of Streaks need to be decreased, as it stands now it is equivilent to NOOB TUBING in Call Of Duty.

Edited by VxSPEC, 18 January 2013 - 01:03 PM.

[Eddy Hawkins]

The SSRMs always TRY to hit CT, they hit L/RT, arms, and even legs so for at least some of the time that damage is split to differnt sectors. using your PPC comparison - if you hit all that damage hits the same spot.

Again using the PPC - yes it does the same damage, but it also causes the target to generate heat when hit, SSRMs do not do that.

Depending on the range, an AMS will shoot down about half the SSRMs shot at a mech (unless you are shooting six of them, in which case the AMS gets overwhelmd), AMS has no effect on PPC.

PPC has 600+ range, SSRM has 270 max

SSRM ammo explodes if hit, PPC does not (this is why you see SSRM fitted Stalkers self detnotate with full CT armor)

And depending on the speed/angle of the firer and the speed/angle of the target - yes SSRMs do infact miss.

Edited by Eddy Hawkins, 18 January 2013 - 01:09 PM.

[Furniture]

Syllogy, on 18 January 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

I see no arguments that show why they are overpowered.

I can see that you've never piloted a Spider. Try it. If you can even last through getting the basics ground out on all of the variants, come back and tell me that Streaks are perfectly fine.

[wolfmanjake]

Don't worry they will reduce streak damage once the lag shield on the lights is fixed.

[VxSPEC]

Furniture, on 18 January 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

I can see that you've never piloted a Spider. Try it. If you can even last through getting the basics ground out on all of the variants, come back and tell me that Streaks are perfectly fine.

Agreed using a Spider ECM against another ECM that has Streaks is impossible to win against!

[General Taskeen]

Too much complexity, IMO.

Better implementation already exists in past Mech titles and current.

In Mech Warrior 3, missiles move slower, and also lose tracking (after firing) if the target is moving too fast while purposefully strafing, uses jump jets, or is too close to you and moving. Most of the time this just means that when a Streak fires, it doesn't do a complete a 180. They are limited in their tracking angles as the missile moves. The problem with streaks in MWO is that they can fire at completely odd angles and never lose tracking. I could care less if TT descriptions of a streak say they only fire if a hit is ensured.

MW:LL is kind of similar in regards to MW3 SSRM implementation, but the missiles fire fast like MWO's, but they are still not going to hit if the target is trying to dodge them and they rarely hit all in the same spot.

[Garth Erlam]

I can't say whether or not changes are inbound - but I can say that if you lose a lock while the missiles are in flight, they stop tracking the target.

Keep suggestions coming though

[sarkun]

The streaks are fine in all but one aspect - they shouldn't have a 100% chance to hit. Heat, damage, cycle time, all ok. But you just can't have one weapon that always hits when all others require aiming - and maintaing a lock is much easier than aiming. They should have a limited turn radius, and if they can't turn fast enough - they miss - if they have enought flight time left they'd turn around and try again.

[Solis Obscuri]

I'm ok with streaks hitting accurately, but the location targeting could stand to be a bit more random. Even trying to spread damage to arms etc... they really still mostly hit CT. I never would have worried much about a Streakcat if it did 30 damage every 3.25s, but in a medium or light chassis you can absorb that to the CT maybe three times, at best. Trying to destroy a full-armor CPLT-A1 that could distribute direct-fire damage all over it's facings while still keeping a steady stream of SSRMs coming was ludicrous in any lighter chassis. Especially after the Catapult head hitbox got reduced.

[CancR]

Cool! Garth replied in my thread.

PLZ Nerf streaks into oblivion.

[Nankam]

Streaks are a no skill weapon that does more dps than a medium laser, which needs to be aimed. Really doesn't make sense. Currently they dominate light vs light battles to the point where it's near impossible to beat a Raven 3L or Commando 2D without being in one yourself.

Why on earth they chose the lights with the most missile hardpoints to be the ecm mechs is beyond me. It should have been the Raven 2X and Commando 1B. That way the lights with ecm could counter streak heavy lights.

[Heketon]

Any chance that Streaks can have a maximum "off-bore" angle of attack? By that I mean that if the targeted mech is more than a certain angle from the launch tube, the missiles lose lock or can't turn quick enough to hit.

[Morang]

Suggestion one: need to reaquire lock after each salvo. May apply to LRMs too.

Suggestion two: drop SSRMs lock at all. Use lead calculation mechanics which will allow firing at target only when mechwarrior manually applies correct lead (i. e.: I keep trigger pressed and wave crosshairs around targeted enemy mech - which may be not just standing or moving away/towards me - in which case it's sufficient to keep crosshairs on target - but may also be moving sideays and so require a lead. Anyway, when my crosshairs are at correct lead, Streak system unleashes the salvo of unguided missiles. And, of course, increase their speed at least to this of SRMs. That will not guarantee 100% hit, but with correct implementation can come close to this).

In both cases, make it possible to fire Streaks like dumb-fire SRMs under ECM jamming. In former case they still will be inferior to standard SRMs in this "unguided" mode due to lower missile velocity. In latter case they just won't be so OP in Streak mode and will perform just like standard SRMs under jamming - but retaining mass penalty for heavier launcher.

Edited by Morang, 19 January 2013 - 09:16 AM.

[CancR]

I still think streaks should be this nerf:

1) lock requires the centre target crosshair (the circle) to be dead centre on an enemy mech the entire time of the lock and the moment any part of the cross hair touches something else the lock is broken
2)Spread is wider
3) tonnage for a streak is increased and ammo per ton is decreased

[General Taskeen]

The simple solution to all lock on missiles should be more straight forward:

1. Make all missiles fire in salvo's (ripple fire, one missile fired immediately after the next), except for future MRM's (video example provided)



2. Give all lock on missiles a minimum traverse angle or arc (bad drawring example provided) (a SSRM would have the same traverse angle as a SRM tracking a NARC, same with LRM's tracking LOS target or LOS/Non-LOS NARC/TAG target)



3. Leave Missiles with high damage, but make the 'lock' track the general blob of the Mech (if this is possible?), not parts of it.

4. The ECM affect on missiles: Make ECM only make lock-on take longer (at any given effective range), and that's it. It should not stop target locks altogether.

Hello balance!

Edited by General Taskeen, 19 January 2013 - 06:19 PM.

[focuspark]

Getting rid of guided missile lock on fixes streaks and LRMs. Also reduces the impact ECM has on the game. Three wins, one action.

[Khanahar]

Two things with streaks, either together or apart, could leave them perfectly balanced.

1) Have them require a new lock after each shot. This would significantly weaken them in light vs. light battles, which is where the balance problem exists.

2) Make ECMed 'mechs either unable to mount streaks, or else give them a far longer lock-time than non-ECM 'mechs. This instantly solves the 3L problem.

My preferred solution would be a mix of both: have un-ECMed streak carriers unaffected, but ECM streak carriers must re-lock every shot.

Suddenly, my 2D becomes a far more rewarding and challenging 'mech to run.

Remember that we can't fully disallow ECM and streaks... the Hellbringer Prime would have a word or two to say about that.