39 replies to this topic

[FrupertApricot]

Almost every mech has a variant or two that are frankly useless. Spider with 4 ballistic and a laser, cmon!

The ECM variant can have 3 lasers. It is just annoying that there are so many OBVIOUSLY SUPERIOR variants. Stalker vars with different amounts of hardpoint totals and mechs that get ECM and better hardpoints than other variants are the most obvious offenders. I think some of them should get a "gift" hardpoint to make up for it. That spider with the 4 machineguns is just so damn sad. Maybe if they buff mguns or gave it 8 slots for em lol make it into an IS piranha.

[Memnarch1113]

I agree 100% I bought the bad spider, and now I want my money back!
That was my first mech purchase, and it seems like I might just go and sell it...

[Homeless Bill]

The Spider you're referring to will be my new ride as soon as they buff machineguns. I do, however, agree that there are a ton of variants that serve no purpose other than grinding for Elite skills. They definitely need to do something to balance it out at some point.

[Canis Arctos]

Homeless Bill, on 18 January 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

They definitely need to do something to balance it out at some point.

to make the game even easier ?

Well... okay.

[Sug]

FrupertApricot, on 18 January 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Almost every mech has a variant or two that are frankly useless. Spider with 4 ballistic and a laser, cmon!

Four AC/20s. Duh.

[Tombstoner]

Its the result of using TT mech designs in a none TT game. This leads to the issue you describe.
useless designs. i bought the 4x ballistic only because i like the sound mg make.
yes i'm not a min maxer i like to play odd designs. other wise id never leave my ECM raven.

[One Medic Army]

Any mech under 70 tons with 3 or more ballistic hardpoints (Hunch 3G and Dragon 5N being the least terrible).
What's the common theme? Lots of ballistics in the same section and/or lots of ballistics on a mech that can't afford the weight to use it for anything other than MGs (which are terrible, and will continue to be terrible until damage is buffed).
The Hunch and Dragon at least have the weight to mount multiple AC/2s.

Edited by One Medic Army, 18 January 2013 - 03:05 PM.

[Team Leader]

The spider with 2 lasers (in the CT...) made me realize that yeah, maybe we should. Can we also get a bunch of ballistic points on mechs like the Hunchback G which could use 9 ballistic pints

[shintakie]

Off the top of my head head theres.

The Spider 5K: 4 arm mounted ballistics and 1 energy slot in the CT. No ECM. Lowest possible amount of JJs of all the Spiders. Currently useless till the MG buff comes in or as some ridiculous rooftop AC/2 sniper with **** all ammo.

Jenner JR7-K: There is absolutely no build you can make on the K that can't be also made with the D, but better. Its only plus is the extra modules, however at this point in the game modules don't make up for anythin.

Raven 4X: Hey looks. Its a 2L but with useless ballistic points and no ECM. Pass.

Cicada 2B: Not sure what the point of arm mounted lasers are when your arms don't turn farther than your body. I guess you can mildly make the argument that its "better" for aimin up or down, but thats flimsy at best. Outside of that, completely outclassed by the 2A in every may, minus modules. See the JR7-K why that means squat.

Cicada 3C: The slowest Cicada and it only has 1 energy slot and 4 ballistic slots. No ECM to cover these fairly glarin weaknesses.

Dragon 5N: Not really all that terrible, but its pretty gimmicky. With 3 ballistics in the right arm you're pretty much pigeonholed into a triple AC/2 setup and if you lose that arm your damage becomes so gimped that its laughable. If you don't pick a triple AC/2 setup then why the blue hell are you usin a 5N?

Stalker STK-3H/4N: Why do these variants exist in this game? Can anyone at all explain this to me? Any build you can make in those mechs can be replicated in either the 3F or the 5M, but you can do it better. I really really don't understand the thought process behind 4 variants to the Stalker and havin 2 of them exist purely to increase the grind to master. There is 0 other reason to take these mechs other than as a cbill/xp dump. They don't even have pointless extra module slots for when/if modules actually become useful enough to justify the lost damage potential from havin them.

Atlas AS7-K: Its an Atlas AS7-RS, but more expensive and yet somehow worse. You trade a ballistic slot for an extra AMS. This used to (barely) be a useful tradeoff when LRM's darkened the sky. Nowadays when ECM is so prevalent and LRM boats are rare the cost of that extra missile coverage is far far higher than the reward.

Thats all I can think of for now. All but the 3C, 4X, and the 5K aren't necessarily gimped outright, just gimped in comparison to other variants, but I still count them. However the 3C, 4X, and 5K really are quite gimped. I love my 3C, dont get me wrong, but its pathetically useless with MGs bein as pointless as they are now and is mostly just relegated to cheese builds like that ridiculous 4xAC/5 I saw a while back.

Edited by shintakie, 18 January 2013 - 03:09 PM.

[a rabid chihuahua]

Sug, on 18 January 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

[/size]

Four UAC/20s. Duh.

/fixed

[FrupertApricot]

Thanks for the awesome comprehensive list. All those mechs could do with an extra energy HP where they already have one or missile HP where they already have one as a non obtrusive slight buff IMHO. Howd you all feel about that?

[shintakie]

FrupertApricot, on 18 January 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Thanks for the awesome comprehensive list. All those mechs could do with an extra energy HP where they already have one or missile HP where they already have one as a non obtrusive slight buff IMHO. Howd you all feel about that?

Eh, that could work on a couple mechs, but most of them have bigger issues than that. The JR7-K is bein balanced around its extra modules which leads me to believe that, eventually, modules will become a big enough thing that they'll actually be worth that lost hardpoint. If that ends up bein the case then any buff to it now would make it unbalanced in the future. I don't necessarily agree with that idea, but its somethin to at least consider.

The Stalker 4N could benefit from an extra energy hardpoint as that'd give it 1 energy over the 3F while down a missile hardpoint instead of bein down a missile hardpoint and...thats it. However the Stalker 3H is completely outclassed in every way by the Stalker 5M. It is missin both an energy hardpoint and a missile hardpoint and there appears to be absolutely nothin put in place to balance this. It'd need 2 energy or 2 missile hardpoints to have somethin unique about it, but that just seems silly.

Edit - Huh, I totally forgot the Stalker 5S existed which is, literally, a Stalker 3F with an extra AMS slot. Flipped around the Stalker 3F is a Stalker 5S, but 3 million cbills cheaper.

Seriously. What the hey? Who picked these Stalker variants and why are they so dumb.

Edited by shintakie, 18 January 2013 - 03:36 PM.

[Orzorn]

I never understood why the Stalker 3H LOST hardpoints. It should have gained 2 missile hardpoints, and lost two of its energy hardpoints.

Edited by Orzorn, 18 January 2013 - 03:37 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Orzorn, on 18 January 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

I never understood why the Stalker 3H LOST hardpoints. It should have gained 2 missile hardpoints, and lost two of its energy hardpoints.

Can you imagine a Stalker with 6 SRM6s, AND 4 energy hardpoints on top?
Or 4 LRM15s, 2 SRM6s 3 Medium Lasers and a TAG?

[Relic1701]

Ursh, on 18 January 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

Oh Garth, you eat ECM mechs with your Cicada? You're playing with zero lag, of course you do. The mechs in your target reticle actually take damage when you shoot at them, unlike those of us playing from Russia. So do us all a favor and go f**k yourself.

If I'm not mistaken...Garth is in Vancouver, the servers are in Montreal or Toronto (either way, the other side of Canada)...so he does have lag issues...

As to the main issue here, I like the challenge of playing the less capable mechs, makes things more interesting for me, and forces me to 'up' my game.

(I've actually managed to cram a gauss on my 5K, it's not very good, but it's a surprise )

Edited by Relic1701, 18 January 2013 - 03:44 PM.

[shintakie]

One Medic Army, on 18 January 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

Can you imagine a Stalker with 6 SRM6s, AND 4 energy hardpoints on top?
Or 4 LRM15s, 2 SRM6s 3 Medium Lasers and a TAG?

Take off 1 of those missiles on either of those builds, add another energy weapon, and you just made a Stalker 5M.

As it currently stands there is no point to the Stalker 3H. None. Zero. Nada. Zilch. Zip. It needs extra missile hardpoints to at least give it some form of identity that can't be replicated, but better, in the 5M.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Tombstoner, on 18 January 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

Its the result of using TT mech designs in a none TT game. This leads to the issue you describe.
useless designs. i bought the 4x ballistic only because i like the sound mg make.
yes i'm not a min maxer i like to play odd designs. other wise id never leave my ECM raven.

its because that variant is a anti infantry specialized mech

Quote

SDR-5K - The -5K Spider removes one of the Medium Lasers and replaces it with two arm mounted Machine Guns for anti-infantry use. To make room for its Machine Gun ammunition the 'Mech sacrifices 60 meters of its jump capability. ^[5] BV (1.0) = 433, BV (2.0) = 503

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 18 January 2013 - 03:49 PM.

[One Medic Army]

shintakie, on 18 January 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Take off 1 of those missiles on either of those builds, add another energy weapon, and you just made a Stalker 5M.

As it currently stands there is no point to the Stalker 3H. None. Zero. Nada. Zilch. Zip. It needs extra missile hardpoints to at least give it some form of identity that can't be replicated, but better, in the 5M.

My point was that Missile hardpoints are currently scary in large numbers, especially on mechs with the tonnage to do things with them.
Just compare an A1 catapult to a C1 catapult.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

nvm, the thread was moved so that it will die a quiet death

One Medic Army, on 18 January 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

My point was that Missile hardpoints are currently scary in large numbers, especially on mechs with the tonnage to do things with them.
Just compare an A1 catapult to a C1 catapult.

which one is completely useless when (not if) ecm is brought in again?

[Ursh]

Relic1701, on 18 January 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

If I'm not mistaken...Garth is in Vancouver, the servers are in Montreal...so he does have lag issues...

As to the main issue here, I like the challenge of playing the less capable mechs, makes things more interesting for me, and forces me to 'up' my game.

(I've actually managed to cram a gauss on my 5K, it's not very good, but it's a surprise )

He faces few problems, since the internet in his country is routed through his country. Also, challenging yourself takes on new meaning when you are really far from the beta servers. I think you simply don't understand what it is to fire at people on a regular basis and simply have your hits not register.

I'm in Moscow, Garth isn't so far away, and is on the same national network as their servers. I routinely have 150-250ms latency, which means I actually have to aim at mechs that simply aren't where i'm shooting if they are practicing any kind of evasive maneuvers.

Thanks for providing playtips against complete f**king idiots and new players though, I really needed those. At no point in time had I ever figured out that missiles or projectiles had travel times. At some point in time though I had this dream that they would actually fire when i hit the button, and maybe even hit what I shot at.