19 replies to this topic

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Did I miss something, how did this rules aberration come about, 8 JJ should be the maximum. The fact that it needs 12 to perform to specification leads me to believe that all Jump Jets need to be increased in efficiency by 50%, then this particular spider can mount 8 as originally designed.

Just out of curiosity, where did the additional 2 tons for those additional 4 jump jets come from?

[One Medic Army]

Stock comes with 8, maximum is 12.
I'd imagine it's PGI testing ways other than weapon hardpoints to balance variants against eachother, since some mechs the variants have very very similar hardpoints (like Stalkers).

[Spawnr]

Not an abberation!
12 JJ == fun. you can actually jump over stuff.

Dropped in an XL 250 engine, switch to endo steel and bolt in 4 more jumpjets from stock 8 and you have room to include AMS. The lack of slots free in the CT where the hardpoints are is a bit limiting. 2 hardpoints and 2 slots means you have only a choice of medium lazors or one Large - which means tag or not is a big choice.

But at 135Kph and jumping like a madman it's like playing tribes 2.

[a rabid chihuahua]

Spawnr, on 18 January 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

Not an abberation!
12 JJ == fun. you can actually jump over stuff.

Dropped in an XL 250 engine, switch to endo steel and bolt in 4 more jumpjets from stock 8 and you have room to include AMS. The lack of slots free in the CT where the hardpoints are is a bit limiting. 2 hardpoints and 2 slots means you have only a choice of medium lazors or one Large - which means tag or not is a big choice.

But at 135Kph and jumping like a madman it's like playing tribes 2.

I maxed mine with everything and could only jam 11, but it is a blast to run, jump, and glide for ever..then get blasted out of the sky.

[PoLaR]

Yeah, the 12 jumpjets are extremely fun. I love flying by team mates doing spins in the air lol I know how It sounds... but really, you haven't had this type of fun unless you've tried It. I often find myself looking for jumps and ridges to get huge air off of and some serious hang time. Blowing stuff up is always a great time, but playing a different side of the game Is always an interesting factor.

[Wrenchfarm]

I loved jumping around, hated everything else about the mech. I'm all for unorthodox builds and valuing elements of a mech other than damage, but at a certain point you have to be able to hurt the enemy or do SOMETHING that will add to the team. Being able to whoop and fly around is fun for you, not so fun for the rest of the team that is effectively down a man.

If the 5V had something like an ambient sensor boost, higher top speed than the other scouts, or if capping was more valued/desired in this game, I could see a place for it. As it is, back capping is liable to annoy your team more than anything and even when you do you're likely to attract the attention of a scout that can go just as fast as you and massively outguns you.

[Spawnr]

Wrenchfarm, on 18 January 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

If the 5V had something like an ambient sensor boost, higher top speed than the other scouts, or if capping was more valued/desired in this game, I could see a place for it. As it is, back capping is liable to annoy your team more than anything and even when you do you're likely to attract the attention of a scout that can go just as fast as you and massively outguns you.

depending on the game you end up in, but having eyes on the enemy all the time is quite handy. I have sensor module and bap and as I said sometimes TAG so I can't really hurt much, but I can make sure others around me can. And beeline (as the spider flies) between the caps in conquest can help rack up the points.
Also handy for those in the team annoying ******* camp since you can be a distraction to assaults - just never run in a straight line for too long!

[grifflyman]

Not worth taking the 12, you get up so high that when you land you damage the hell out of your legs....not to mention everyone see a flying mech as wants to shoot you...

I tried running it with a ERLL and I just get owned when I try to scout around...

[T Hawk]

To be honest I didn't notice any positive difference between having 2 or 12 jjs. I stick with 2 for all variants and these are enough for evasion and jumping on stuff.

[Darwins Dog]

grifflyman, on 27 February 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Not worth taking the 12, you get up so high that when you land you damage the hell out of your legs....not to mention everyone see a flying mech as wants to shoot you...

I tried running it with a ERLL and I just get owned when I try to scout around...

What else are you going to do with it? It's not like you can add more weapons, and with only 2 lasers, you don't really have to worry about heat. Might as well use them all.

EDIT: forgot the quote

Edited by Darwins Dog, 27 February 2013 - 02:01 PM.

[Terradoss]

T Hawk, on 27 February 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

To be honest I didn't notice any positive difference between having 2 or 12 jjs. I stick with 2 for all variants and these are enough for evasion and jumping on stuff.

While it's true that 1-2 jumpjets is sufficient for air braking manouvers and getting on top of obstacles, there IS in fact a tangible benefit to having more jumpjets. Speed of upwards thrust. 12 jumpjets will get you higher in the air way, WAY faster than 1-2 does. You can question whether this benefit is worthwhile, but thats an entirely separate issue. 12 JJ provides greater upwards thrust at higher velocities than a lower amount.

The Spider 5V is an odd mech in general. I've piloted all the spiders extensively and I've found that the 5V has grown on me a bit. When im not running with an LRM buddy, or feeling particularly team focussed, I run mine with all 12 JJ's, two medium pulse lasers and max armor on everything excepting arms which i run at 11 each (yay for arm shields).

It's true that the offensive payload of all the spiders is pretty limited, but they are bar none, the most manouverable mech in the game as well as having the best aerial potential. They've got a torso twist that only just falls short of a Jenner's (or Cicadas) as well as very good arm articulation (for the 5D and 5K) and its biggest selling point to me is that it has the single best turning speed in the game. It's base turn rate quite literally ***** all over everything. Not even the smaller Commando gets anywhere near it in terms of turning on a 5 cent piece and this can be FUTHER enhanced by he discerning use of jumpjets to tighten turning angles. This is a very underrated and enormously powerful tool in the hands of a skilled pilot.

Couple a high level of skill with good situational awareness and you can wreak havoc in an enemy team and not just through capping/spotting. One of my favourite tricks is careful positioning amongst multiple enemy mechs to encourage them to inflict as much friendly fire as possible youd be surprised how often enemies will hit their allies because they see you around.

Typically I think the 5D is a more useful asset in a heavily organised team environment, but the 5V is a blast to play solo and I vehemently dispute the claim that it is a useless mech.

[Aqualo]

Why noone tries to play it zombie like :

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...06b8f5e00560a7f

With all that free tonnage you can actually mount an std 240, with two medpulse.

Yes you are not imba, but well, you last longer...

[Jojobird]

Aqualo, on 07 April 2013 - 03:11 AM, said:

Why noone tries to play it zombie like :

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...06b8f5e00560a7f

With all that free tonnage you can actually mount an std 240, with two medpulse.

Yes you are not imba, but well, you last longer...

Mostly because you don't need to. Death by side engine explosion is not a major issue in this mech. You loose pretty much everything before the small side torsos go most of the time.

To the OP, I use 12 on mine. It's admittedly more of a troll build than anything else, but if you stay alive against 1 or 2 assaults, they'll suicide out of bounds out of sheer frustration. Not that there's any other efficient way to kill them.

[Sepertar]

Do a ppc and then shove the jump jets in

[Koniving]

Sepertar, on 06 May 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

Do a ppc and then shove the jump jets in

You can't. The 12V cannot support a PPC. It's the reason most people don't like it. You get 2 energy, no larger than mediums. Or 1 large. That's it.

Agent 0 Fortune, on 18 January 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Did I miss something, how did this rules aberration come about, 8 JJ should be the maximum. The fact that it needs 12 to perform to specification leads me to believe that all Jump Jets need to be increased in efficiency by 50%, then this particular spider can mount 8 as originally designed.

That particular Spider is the weakest mech the game possibly supports. Even the flea can mount more and larger weapons and it's 10 tons lighter. It's plenty nerfed.

Not long after the Spiders came out, JJ's got a HUGE efficiency boost.

This video is of me getting ON TOP of the Frozen City Caves BEFORE that boost.

First. Second highest point that existed in the game at the time of the Spider's release.
Spider D.


Highest point that ever existed -- was never supposed to exist, too, and later got fixed -- at the time of the spider's release.


Awesome, isn't it?

JJ's are plenty strong enough now. Trading standard heatsinks for doubles and using an XL engine is more than enough to get that extra tonnage.

Trial builds also suck, so you always want the option to do "more."

Edited by Koniving, 06 May 2013 - 06:23 AM.

[Oogalook]

The 5V is meant to be superior to the other spiders in all terms except firepower- it's more maneuverable, and- don't forget- it has one more module. That means you can mount BAP, Extended Sensors, Seismic, and UAV all at once- that's a lot of functionality.

[Jenkss]

I run my Spiders a lot, more than any other mech by far.

At first I thought the 5V was a waste of time... but that's definitely changed. It's currently my highest K/D and W/L of all my mechs (not just the Spiders).

I run it with:
XL255
Endo
DBL HS
2MPL
2pts off max armor
11/12 JJ

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...818d5e268d76b74

I chose not to waste CBills on ferro as for only an extra 2 points of damage it wasn't worth it. You can't fit that final JJ either as the ferro takes up all the remaining crit slots.

I don't see what else I could possibly use the extra space saved from JJ for, maybe a BAP but that's it.

Some people say you should drop the XL and go full zombie Spider. But I don't think that gains you anything, pilot it well and the Spider is pretty tough to hit so by the time my side torsos are in real trouble I'm usually about to lose a leg (or 2) and/or my CT.

I don't see the need for any more firepower than the 2MPL provides, sure it would be nice and having a PPC on the 5D is cool and all. But it isn't like the MPLs perform badly. You can quite easily top score damage wise if you aren't afraid to get in there and fight. The range is low but that's where your speed and JJ come into play.

I love that little thing, moves fast enough and jumps high enough to stand and fight 1 on 1 with just about anything.

Have managed to win rounds being the last man standing several times against much heavier opponents.

Watching an assault or heavy get frustrated as you jump over his head and shoot him in the back over and over again never gets old.

Edited by Jenkss, 14 July 2013 - 09:04 PM.

[Oogalook]

A few of the above posts hit the meat of it already, but I like to put in my two cents. I don't know if anyone noticed, but ONLY the SDR-5D is limited to the 255 engine- both the others can go to 285, which (with some very laggy testing) proves to let it exceed the speed of sound by a small margin.

This guy (5V) is tied with the 5K for the fastest mech in the game, reaching (with speed tweak) 166.8 KPH. You have no idea what that's like. Not only that, but at Elite level, you reach that speed in about one second. I found that I could do a 180 turn in four steps, less than two seconds, even at this speed. Armor? Forget about it. I found that I could run effortlessly between the entire enemy team without getting hit except by lasers. PPCs, ACs, and missiles simply cannot hit a competent pilot in this mech.

The point is, even without max JJs, this guy can get anywhere faster than anything else. It pulls about 20 KPH above the 3L, and can dodge like a politician. With a tag and a medium laser, I basically try to pick up kill assists and TAG bonuses for my daily bread. It's true that no other mech has less firepower than the 5V, but the game designers clearly decided that it would be the best at everything else.

Edited by Oogalook, 05 December 2013 - 06:20 AM.

[Goose]

Eleven jump jets give one the crits for Ferro in addition to Endo, freeing up weight for that 285XL, and leaving 3 tons for two, one-crit guns …

[zagibu]

You don't need ferro and can still fit 12 JJ: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4cac0050d7f6710