777 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

Ding Toast is Ready, on 07 November 2022 - 09:57 AM, said:

I wonder what would happen if you obfuscated player names in the match environment somehow (replaced the user name with a simple unique identification string that changed from match to match but was always unique inside the match itself), and hid scoring/PSR movement/etc. from players.

Nothing, I'd think. The conditioning queues within the match would still be there. You might see attenuation of certain behaviors to some degree, but those behaviors were still present when we didn't have any visible pilot rankings.

[Void Angel]

Ding Toast is Ready, on 07 November 2022 - 11:17 AM, said:

Okay. So you get better results on average (in a communication/coordination vacuum, meaning nobody is really talking or planning) from simply going with whatever a majority of players are doing on a given map/mode regardless of how good a "strategy" it would be? Consider the teammates a kind of unchangeable anchor point for what you're doing at any given time, basically. Locations on the map are a secondary consideration.

Sorta? I have to apologize a bit here, because I've written two guides, with some interrelated principles shared between them - and since the objections to the two different guides tend to be the same, I kind of conflated the two a little. Thus, I've allowed the conversation to swing more toward general cooperation in the absence of teamwork, which is actually another guide.

That cooperation treatise is "Follow the Fracking Atlas," linked in my signature. THIS treatise (also linked) is an explanation of and proposed solution to excessive passivity in matches: people who will not leave their favorite Sniper Spot because they've unconsciously been conditioned to feel that exposure is death, and they want to keep playing the game. Since the game doesn't give immediate feedback, they can't see the downsides of their play, and assume that the rest of the team is the problem in a loss - even when they were given ample warning that Bad Things were coming there way.

Edited by Void Angel, 07 November 2022 - 11:39 AM.

[Void Angel]

Now, for your actual question, let me think up a clear case example:

Say your team decides to chase some Lights into the middle of Viridian Bog and then stay there, with enemies on the high ground all around them. That's an untenable position; there is SOME cover down there, but they're going to get shot to doll rags, and there's not much you can do about that. But you can maneuver to flank some of the enemies and try to take them out from the side, or suppress their fire on your team - whatever your 'mech is built to do. You can't really help them there, and it doesn't make sense to follow the team into a kill zone with your Gauss Jaeger.

On the OTHER hand, say you have a group of Atlas brawlers in Frozen City, and they're going over the hill, come hell or high water - you DO want to follow them, because sitting on the other side playing ballistic whack-a-mole ensures that the enemy can defeat your brawlers in detail and come for you. So when it's possible, you should always support the team, even if you brought a Gauss/PPC trading build with sustained DPS to the battle.

Ding Toast is Ready, on 07 November 2022 - 11:42 AM, said:

I don't really know how to react when there's not one particular "trend" to follow with the team. Scattering on certain maps gets really bad and I honestly have no idea what to do then.

Then you pick the hill you're going to die on. In cases where the team just splits off to do whatever (which is separate from a Light wolfpack splitting off,) you just pick the teammates whose builds you think you'll be best able to support, and give it the old country try. You can't fix stupid - but you can punish it, and that's what the enemy team is about to do. This is more along the lines of "Follow the Fracking Atlas," but basically you just chalk that up winning the idiot lottery and try to keep a clear head next game. Often a "hey, guys, we should probably pick one place to go," can wake people up who aren't paying attention, but if they don't listen, just call targets and do the best you can to stay alive and fight your 'mech.

Edited by Void Angel, 07 November 2022 - 11:53 AM.

[Void Angel]

If it IS a wolfpack, let them do their thing, and try to get your team to engage the enemy when the wolfpack gets stuck in and the other team gets distracted dealing with them.

[Void Angel]

Eh, you just have to be able to keep up, so it depends on the pack. Generally I'd say around 130kph, but some wolfpacks have slower members. Loadouts in a wolfpack are generally going to be heat-efficient, high-damage close-in builds. Pulse Lasers, MGs, Heavy Medium Lasers, SRMs, that sort of thing. The idea is to close in rapidly in a group, find someone relatively isolated, and murder them fast. Another tactic is to beeline past enemies and have everyone in the line take a shot at the nearest leg of whoever is targeted.

Edited by Void Angel, 07 November 2022 - 08:50 PM.

[w0qj]

WOW, you've been around!

Void Angel started this very thread in 2013, and almost 800 replies since then
[Edit: that's almost 10 years ago !!]

Void Angel, on 07 November 2022 - 08:50 PM, said:

Eh, you just have to be able to keep up, so it depends on the pack. Generally I'd say around 130kph, but some wolfpacks have slower members. Loadouts in a wolfpack are generally going to be heat-efficient, high-damage close-in builds. Pulse Lasers, MGs, Heavy Medium Lasers, SRMs, that sort of thing. The idea is to close in rapidly in a group, find someone relatively isolated, and murder them fast. Another tactic is to beeline past enemies and have everyone in the line take a shot at the nearest leg of whoever is targeted.

Edited by w0qj, 08 November 2022 - 08:58 PM.

[Void Angel]

Heheh. It's been a while - some of the specific examples are outdated, but I'm happy people find it helpful from time to time.

[Void Angel]

Well, it works for me and at least the 197 other people who've liked the post - one of whom thought enough of it to translate it into French. Give it time; MWO has a steep learning curve, guides or no, and match results can feel random a lot of the time. If my advice is working just as well as what you were doing before, stick with it. You'll see dividends eventually.

[Tesunie]

Ding Toast is Ready, on 20 November 2022 - 05:12 PM, said:

At this point I have to ask something completely tangential but related.

How the **** do you deal with the insane levels of frustration this game induces?

Depends upon what it is about the game that is frustrating you. Otherwise, it generally comes down to attempting to use counter tactics to whatever it is, and working with your teammates as best you can.

[Void Angel]

Ding Toast is Ready, on 20 November 2022 - 05:12 PM, said:

At this point I have to ask something completely tangential but related.

How the **** do you deal with the insane levels of frustration this game induces?

I write guides. =)

[Void Angel]

I also have several different chassis in each weight class, with different play styles. So if my Light small laser stealth Locust isn't working, I can go to my SNPPC/ERML Spider 5D, or my Huntsman brawler, or my Hunchback AC/20 poke build, or my Marauder MRM build, etc.

Like any MMO I've ever played, the time of day and week actually has a significant impact on who is playing, and therefore what tactics will predominate in a match. Since you do need a team to succeed in a team game, your tactics have to accord with what the team is going to do - even if they're all Elo thieves. And even then, you'll find that you just have bad match after bad match, even though you don't see anything you've done wrong, per se - because you're relying on unconscious expectations about how players will react that were established while playing with a different demographic.

So when I find myself on the losing end of a losing streak - where what I'm trying to do just doesn't seem to work - I'll start to switch 'mechs and build styles every couple of matches. This forces me to vary whatever I'm doing, and helps me to break the cycle.

Edited by Void Angel, 20 November 2022 - 11:26 PM.

[Void Angel]

Ding Toast is Ready, on 20 November 2022 - 07:07 PM, said:

...Fair.

I am serious about that, by the way. The original title of this thread was "Cowardice Is Not a Tactic," but I had to change it to its less pointed (but more alliterative) present form when someone illegally modded it to Kratoa, under "Jettisoned Communications."

[Void Angel]

I've also written a guide to the old version of Polar Highlands that was prefaced with an image link of the largest word "clue" I could find. =)

Edit: Found it!

Spoiler

Edited by Void Angel, 21 November 2022 - 03:11 PM.

[Ignatius Audene]

Ding Toast is Ready, on 20 November 2022 - 05:12 PM, said:

At this point I have to ask something completely tangential but related.

How the **** do you deal with the insane levels of frustration this game induces?

Get some friends! It's an multiplayer game...
Then fp is an instantly much better option and u are not trapped in qp yolo land. And if nothing else helps u can at least share your frustrations;)

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 26 November 2022 - 07:34 AM.

[Tesunie]

Ding Toast is Ready, on 20 November 2022 - 05:39 PM, said:

Just leaving the last match in the past where it belongs or at least long enough to want to make the next one work. Some way to switch gears without dropping the game for the night entirely. If I'm not playing, I'm not getting better at it.

Well, you can't control your teammates, but you can try talking to them and hope for the best.

Besides that, you can play with up to 4 friends as a team. At least that can make it so you have 3 other people you can rely on within a match.

Otherwise, I'd just concentrate on your own performance, trying to help the team as best as you can when you can. If someone shouts "hold locks, I got LRMs", don't hold a lock at the expense of your own performance/gameplay. (However, it typically is still wise to get and hold locks when you can, as you can.) Work your own skills, and practice a variety of different combat roles and tactics.

As an example, you had mentioned your assault lance wondering off on their own. You don't have to go with them to their deaths if they charge into the enemy alone, but you can provide some extra firepower and support (if possible) for them until they do end up dropping. Try to leverage their action to your (and hopefully your team's) benefit.

Overall, while following the rules, find out what is fun for you to do. Don't worry about wins and losses too much. Just play to have fun.

[Void Angel]

... thanks.

[Void Angel]

It's a competitive game - of course we're all trying to win. And then we mix the teams up and do it all again. That doesn't mean we're all hostile, antisocial jackasses with no redeeming value in the game.

Don't project your bad attitudes onto me. You need to maybe take a step back and work on you for a while; this game may not be good for you. You just spat on people that have been trying to help you from the moment you walked into this forum with a giant chip on your shoulder, myself included. I spent that time because I enjoy the game, despite the frustrating matches, and want other people to have fun too.

But no, you want to be mad, ask for help, and then slap the hand that's offered. "Be real," indeed.

Edited by Void Angel, 24 November 2022 - 07:46 PM.

[Void Angel]

... That's one of the most toxically anti-social things I've ever heard - and I've been on League of Legends! You're playing a team game, with a huge learning curve - and you "draw a hard line" at treating people nicely enough in a video game to be friends online... Then you worry about whether someone is going to "take credit" for your skills? Don't worry; you're safe.

I hate to break it to you, but NOTHING you know is stuff you "figured out by yourself." You may have put in work to learn things, but those things were taught and modeled for you by someone else, starting from INFANCY. Getting help is part of membership in the human race, and refusing to ask for it out of misplaced pride isn't helpful to anyone - least of all to you. It's increasingly clear here that many of the problems you're having are problems you brought with you, and you're going to have to figure them out - if you don't want them to keep dogging you for the rest of your life.

There are people who can help you with that, and talking to them isn't a weakness.