78 replies to this topic

[Dukarriope]

I found myself appreciating MPLs with my LBX K2, and I have a odd fondness for the combination of large pulse combined with standard medium laser. So I'm probably going to appreciate the incoming buff to large pulse lasers and their heat, but personally I think they could reduce the heat for standard large lasers too.

Medium pulse lasers are pretty powerful when boated though.

But honestly speaking I think pulse lasers need to be rethinked. I still like the laser machine gun idea.

[General Taskeen]

I only use pulse lasers if I feel like trotting around in stock builds or building stock builds on existing Mechs. Other than that, I find them boring, somewhat useless, and nearly identical to lasers except for the 'pew pew pew' sound and graphics. If they were more like Mech Warrior 2's pulse laser, a big laser machine gun, or like Mech Warrior's 3's I would use them a lot more.

[Heeden]

I really love analysing the weapon stats in this game, and Las vs. PLas is a great area for comparisons. A few things I consider important to consider are;

DPS - the most obvious, it is the damage you do over time when you take the cooldown in to account.

SLas - 1.00 SPLas - 1.09
MLas - 1.25 MPLas - 1.60
LLas - 2.12 LPLas - 2.60

Damage-Per-Second-On-Target - a feature of laser weapons, it is the amount of damage you do for every second your weapon is firing and hitting a target. Important for hitting evasive targets such as torso-twisting mechs protecting components and little, fast buggers.

SLas - 4.00 SPLas - 6.00
MLas - 5.00 MPLas - 8.00
LLas - 9.00 LPLas - 13.33

They all get a roughly 50% increase here, and from experience the LPLas can cause quite a bit of hurt with sweeping shots.

Damage-Per-Heat - distinct from heat-per-second, this gives an idea of how much you can hurt someone before you have to stop shooting.

SLas - 1.50 SPLas - 1.00
MLas - 1.25 MPLas - 1.20
LLas - 1.29 LPLas - 1.11

"Upgrading" to pulse versions instantly removes the only reason anyone takes smalls, making them the most horribly inefficient weapons outside of the much maligned ER and Flamer weapons. The mediums are surprisingly close together with the gap being almost insignificant. Considering their reputation LPLas is not much less efficient than LLas.

Damage-Per-Second-Per-Ton - important to consider as you'll be sacrificing either weapon systems or heat-sinks if you take PLas over Las.

SLas - 2.00 SPLas - 1.09
MLas - 1.25 MPLas - 0.80
LLas - 0.42 LPLas - 0.36

The final nail in the coffin of the SPLas, given the 180m range difference I can't see any reason to take one over the MLas. The MPLas still has its place, and from experience I can say a 4 MPLas Jenner is brilliant for harassing the rears of heavies and assaults or chasing away other lights. Cycle firing lets you keep tight control over your heat whilst ensuring only a small amount of damage is lost if your cursor wanders from the target area.

I'm surprised at the LPLas's poor rep given it isn't that much less heat or weight efficient than the non-pulse LLas, although I can't talk from experience as I'm a ****-poor pilot when it comes to heavies.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

The fact of the matter is, Pulse Lasers are really just inferior normal lasers with a very unappealing firing mechanic.

If Pulse Lasers simply fired in a different mechanic to really show its an entirely different class of laser weapon (instead of literally the same thing as normal beam lasers but with more heat, less range and more tonnage) then they'd be worth it.


http://mwomercs.com/...34#entry1737834

[Profiteer]

More heat.
More weight.
Less range.

They sux.

[Bishop Steiner]

No black and white answer. In the right builds, having 4 medium pulse lasers can be utterly devastating. Unfortunately SML and LPL I find to be underwhelming, due to poor range, high heat for weight/damage. But I like the burst hits with the MPL a lot. That said, the standard version of all the lasers are among the most efficient weapons in the game.

So for now, advantage, Standard Lasers.

[Dreamslave]

Pulse lasers are a god-send for a fast moving mech, Anyone who says otherwise doesn't play properly and is wrong because I said so. The end.

[Tuonela]

MPLs are good on fast moving mechs, they give you pinpoint damage, help you leg other lights much faster, and seem to work better against lag shields. On slower mechs regular lasers are fine.

[Sneevus]

I didn't vote because for me it depends what I'm shooting at.

I tend to drive mostly +100kph mechs and find that despite the maths I can kill larger targets faster with MPLs, it's not about the raw damage but about where you put it. A couple of fast flybys with some MPLs can remove a damaged side torso far more easily than with the regulars where you end up splashing the damage around untouched armour instead of in the nice soft gooey centre where it belongs.

I tend to run the JR7-D with 2 MPLS and 2SPLs, sure standard mediums do more damage than the small lasers but if you're knife fighting you don't want to have to hang around too long. Yeah it's kinda nice to have the range of normal lasers but if you're out in the open in a light at long medium laser ranges but that tends to mean more open ground being exposed for longer and that's not healthy against something with a lot more guns.

Against other fast mechs, however, I kinda prefer a mix of both. Sure the pulses do more damage when you eventually hit the little buggers, but the normal lasers stream for longer so you have more chance of doing at least some damage. Plus some of these new spiders have rubbish hard points, so it's nice to put a normal large laser in one as a single MPL isn't great as your primary damage dealer but a LPL is going a bit to far for me.

In short, I quite like the way it is already, maybe SPLs need a little loving as the short burst doesn't really feel like +2 to hit like it does with the Mediums, but otherwise I appreciate the choice.

[Taizan]

Voted Pulse, just because of the sound. In reality I usually go with non-pulse lasers because of heat and I can lead better with them.

[Lagfest]

I have one on my cataphract.
because i can handle the heat and i have no more E slots...

set up is
1 UAC5
1 AC10
1 LPL
2 ML
4 JJ

Its fun

[CrashieJ]

Pulses due to the fact that each pulse has a crit chance. 4 pulses on chainfire can ruin days faster than beams. the range/heat/weight isnt mush of a problem if you know how to manage it.

[Volume]

There is absolutely no reason to ever use a Small Pulse Laser instead of a Medium Laser.

[RenegadeMaster]

I voted regular because I've never ended up using small or large pulse lasers, and I only use medium pulse if I have tonnage to burn OR I need to make my lasers more suited for light killing.

[Keisuke Nagisa]

Depends on the build. I like Pulse lasers if I can swing them but wont gimp my armor or speed for em.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

gavilatius, on 19 January 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

Pulses due to the fact that each pulse has a crit chance. 4 pulses on chainfire can ruin days faster than beams. the range/heat/weight isnt mush of a problem if you know how to manage it.

I hope your not under some misinformation that pulse lasers have a higher chance of getting a crit on an internal? The only way they do is by simply having a faster burn time meaning you can fire off more actual lasers in the same amount of time than a normal beam laser.

Hell, I'd still take the normals just because of the less weight, higher range and less heat, and use the extra tonnage for a bigger engine or an AMS or something of significance.

[Major Derps]

I love them. The bonus of the extra firepower being focused into a couple of burst, not a continuous beam, is unbeatable. HOWEVER...To run a 'mech with just pulse lasers is impractical, due to the increased weight and heat. They work well in pairs, coupled with projectiles and/or missiles.

De La Fresniere, on 19 January 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

I don't like Pulse Lasers.

They do more damage per shot... but they do a lot less damage per heat, and that alone makes them roughly equal to regular lasers. Then you have to factor in that they weigh a *lot* more and have 33.3% less range, and that makes them seriously inferior.

And that's with Mediums, the only Pulse lasers that have a (niche) role... Small and Large Pulse lasers are genuinely terrible.

It's OK to use an LPL if you think the noise is cool or whatever (it's a game, after all), but don't even try to argue about their strength. Compared to double Mediums or single Larges, they're really really really really *really* awful.

Not necessarily true. The damage of a pulse laser, instead of being spread out over time like with standard lasers, has the full damage focused. Therefor, you are actually doing more 'effective damage' per shot, than you are with standards. And although you are generating more heat per shot, the damage is more focused.
Very handy, considering a mech has multiple armor hp pools, and not a single hp pool. If this game were the other way around, THEN pulse lasers would be obsolete.

Though I will agree that there is no use for small pulse lasers, they may as well be removed from the game

Edited by Smokey Mcpot, 20 January 2013 - 12:27 AM.

[CrashieJ]

mwhighlander, on 20 January 2013 - 12:10 AM, said:

I hope your not under some misinformation that pulse lasers have a higher chance of getting a crit on an internal? The only way they do is by simply having a faster burn time meaning you can fire off more actual lasers in the same amount of time than a normal beam laser.

Hell, I'd still take the normals just because of the less weight, higher range and less heat, and use the extra tonnage for a bigger engine or an AMS or something of significance.

Oh god, I've been lied to?



the PGI staff has been jerking our chain since day 1
welp, gonna load up on medlasers and have wasted tonnage on my mechs
good job on making another weapon completely useless

Edited by gavilatius, 20 January 2013 - 12:27 AM.

[De La Fresniere]

Smokey Mcpot, on 20 January 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

The damage of a pulse laser, instead of being spread out over time like with standard lasers, has the full damage focused. Therefor, you are actually doing more 'effective damage' per shot, than you are with standards. And although you are generating more heat per shot, the damage is more focused.

Well, if you run around swiping your lasers across half the map, sure, your damage to individual sections will be terrible.

If you're capable of keeping your mouse reticule on your target for a second, though, all of the lasers' damage will hit that one spot.

Now if you're in Australia or whatnot (note: this is when I went back and checked... funny enough you *are* from Australia) and have high ping, I can see the appeal of shorter beam durations. My ISP's right next to IGP's servers though, so with my 20ms latency, regular lasers' longer beam duration is not much of a drawback.

The weight, the higher heat, the lesser range... I might be willing to sacrifice one, maybe two of those things for higher damage. All three? No way.

[John MatriX82]

I do not dislike pulse lasers, if I can I try to put them in, but most of the times weight and heat simply negate this possibility in my builds.

They are useful whenever I have a coaxial energy hardpoint (I tend to use normal lasers in the arms, since tracking/leading is much easier than torso-mounted lasers) and against fast movers, where you deal more damage in less time.

However LPLAS just weights too much, generates too much heat and has too much limited range, a PPC is superior whenever I have those 7 tons. MPLASs are more interesting though.