23 replies to this topic

[Pr8Dator]

For those who don't know what I am talking about, the armor values here in MWO are triple what is in the TT (and MWT of course). At last I understood why...

Because weapons CONVERGE and fire together in MWO!!!

In TT (and MWT), each weapon you fire are calculated to hit individually so they may not all hit and then when they do, they are calculated on where they hit individually as well, so they may not all hit on the same spot like in MWO alpha strike. This means that in TT and MWT, damage are more spread out even on an alpha strike than MWO, which makes the game last as long as they did.

If MWO did not triple armor values, the game would be extremely short and would also lose even more of the TT feel.

Along the same line, I think thats the reason for not having DHS2.0 either. That would make laser weapons fire more often together ON THE SAME SPOT, which once again makes the game too quick and lose the TT feel.

DHS2.0 and normal armor values would be TT values, in fact, many weapons would also be TT values, if weapons did not fire and converge the way they did in MWO and all previous mechwarrior games. Convergence and alpha strike in MWO is why MWO cannot stick to TT rules without breaking gameplay. So for all you purists out there, I hope this shed some light on the situation.

Just my 2 C-bills worth.

Edited by Pr8Dator, 20 January 2013 - 08:14 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

CB had normal armor values and the rounds were short. My only peeve is they didn't double the ammo on all the weapons. And they tweaked the damage on all the missiles without considering even looking at the other weapon systems.

[Thirdstar]

Please believe me when I say this but I mean no offense at all towards the OP but everything you mention is pretty well known as the stated reason for the double armor. 1.4 DHS is debatable and I really don't think anyone should get into THAT particular argument again. Pretty please?

[HRR Insanity]

Yes, we've discussed this before.

[Viper69]

Matches were short cause the damn maps are so small. MW4 had standard armor values yet tournaments and matches lasted plenty long, so their excuse for doubling armor is their own making. Small *** maps make fast games, not the armor.

[Pr8Dator]

Viper69, on 20 January 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

Matches were short cause the damn maps are so small. MW4 had standard armor values yet tournaments and matches lasted plenty long, so their excuse for doubling armor is their own making. Small *** maps make fast games, not the armor.

My experience in MW4 was that everything fell much faster than they do in MWO. I could pretty much one shot any medium and light with any of my boated builds but not in MWO. Not even my 5 PPC boat drop mediums and lights on one shot consistently in MWO (perhaps due to lousy netcode and hit detection...). But yeah, normal armor values in MW4 did make me feel I was killing things MUCH faster than in MWO.

Edited by Pr8Dator, 20 January 2013 - 08:35 PM.

[Viper69]

We are talking match length not encounter duration. Sure you kill things in one hit but you also played snarter because of it. Not to mention having to find them on the map.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

HRR Insanity, on 20 January 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

Yes, we've discussed this before.

doesnt ever seem to matter unless its topics PGI/IGP doesnt like

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 20 January 2013 - 08:56 PM.

[BerryChunks]

First, the armor values are double. Secondly, Convergance is a terrible explanation for it.

What better way to encourage MORE boating than depreciating the value of weapons in relation to armor?

Edited by BerryChunks, 20 January 2013 - 09:03 PM.

[Thirdstar]

BerryChunks, on 20 January 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

First, the armor values are double. Secondly, Convergance is a terrible explanation for it.

What better way to encourage MORE boating than depreciating the value of weapons in relation to armor?

I know this may not be good form but i'll lay down what I think happened here. OP signed/bought into Mechwarrior Tactics Beta, saw the dice roll weapons fire and had a revelation and came to the forums here with newfound wisdom.

Not bashing the OP but I can understand the motivation. So, in conclusion, we know.

Edited by Thirdstar, 20 January 2013 - 09:04 PM.

[LethalRose]

Not this discussion again.

Nooooooooo

[Thirdstar]

LethalRose, on 20 January 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

Not this discussion again.

Nooooooooo

I don't know what you're talking about, surely the 10,000th discussion about this topic will shed new light onto the issue.

[BerryChunks]

Thirdstar, on 20 January 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

I don't know what you're talking about, surely the 10,000th discussion about this topic will shed new light onto the issue.

you'd be surprised how many times people discussed Electricity (hint: ancient greek/roman, think mummy batteries in Egyptian king tombs), and despite all discussion it took 2000 years to actually begin to really use it.

I'm sure the people talking about it in the 1500's were all like "Oh boy, this hasn't come up about a million times already).

People like the herps that write that Xth discussion meme are the real ones degrading the forum state.

Edited by BerryChunks, 20 January 2013 - 09:22 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

thought they doubled armor not tripled it

Thirdstar, on 20 January 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

I don't know what you're talking about, surely the 10,000th discussion about this topic will shed new light onto the issue.

yet any talk about the mwll thing gets closed because its already had everything talked about lol

BerryChunks, on 20 January 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

you'd be surprised how many times people discussed Electricity (hint: ancient greek/roman, think mummy batteries in Egyptian king tombs), and despite all discussion it took 2000 years to actually begin to really use it.

I'm sure the people talking about it in the 1500's were all like "Oh boy, this hasn't come up about a million times already).

People like the herps that write that Xth discussion meme are the real ones degrading the forum state.

http://youtu.be/fIQU2K6KlsA
baghdad battery woo

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 20 January 2013 - 09:27 PM.

[Nutlink]

2 words - Dynamic Reticles

Having 2 separate rets for the torso and arms was a good start. Making rets dynamic based on speed, jump jetting, getting hit, torso twist, recoil, weapon type, and arm movement would allow weapons to hit harder, yet reduce the always hit where you aim issue. Longer fights, stronger weapons that actually feel like they're doing something, even light mechs running at 130kph+ being super effective at fighting, all of that could be changed.

This could also possibly help make certain mechs a little more efficient (Wangs arm won't always be able to instantly be blown off on sight, the torsos of the Awesome wouldn't make it an insta-death assault mech, smaller LRMs could be useful without being boated, etc etc).

[Thirdstar]

BOTA49, on 20 January 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

Making rets dynamic based on speed, jump jetting, getting hit, torso twist, recoil, weapon type, and arm movement would allow weapons to hit harder

Okay, i'll ask. How does it do that? Genuine question.

[Kyrie]

"This has happened before, and will happen again."
-BSG :-)

Some discussions refuse to stay dead..

[Thirdstar]

Kyrie, on 20 January 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

"This has happened before, and will happen again."
-BSG :-)

Some discussions refuse to stay dead..

If only repeat discussion were more like zombies.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Kyrie, on 20 January 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

"This has happened before, and will happen again."
-BSG :-)

Some discussions refuse to stay dead..

because as Ive been told, some discussions have new perceptions to add to the discussion, unlike the MWLL discussion, EVERY POSSIBLE discussion point was gone over in http://mwomercs.com/...mwll-situation/

[Thirdstar]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 20 January 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

because as Ive been told, some discussions have new perceptions to add to the discussion, unlike the MWLL discussion, EVERY POSSIBLE discussion point was gone over in http://mwomercs.com/...mwll-situation/

After the discussion quota is complete, a thread must be locked because too much discussion can overload the tubes the interwebz runs on. You wouldn't want to deal with backed up interwebz tubes, believe me. **** everywhere.