124 replies to this topic

[Zylo]

I really don't see any issues with players in the past making UAC/5 un-jam macros or programming their firing rate to avoid jams. Even setting up an on/off switch macro for TAG I don't see as a hack.

Players using these macros are just developing their own solutions to problems in game such as the jamming mechanics of the UAC/5 or the lack of an on/off mode for tag within the game.

[Toydolls]

fil5000, on 21 January 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

It's not THAT great a gun even with the script though. It's better than an AC/10 for DPS sure, but I'd still rather have a gauss or a PPC.

Tell that to the 2 uac/5 I use and get over 1000 damage a round with them on average without the macro

[Kanaric]

macros wouldn't work well if the people who made this game knew how to make games.

Even the CoD devs fixed people macroing their semi-auto guns. If they are capable of that and this company is not that is sad.

[fil5000]

Toydolls, on 21 January 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

Tell that to the 2 uac/5 I use and get over 1000 damage a round with them on average without the macro

I don't doubt it. I bet everyone reading this thread has a dozen screenshots of end of round screens of 1000+ damage rounds for all sorts of weapons in all sorts of mechs. With or without scripts.

[Vaneshi SnowCrash]

TheFlyingScotsman, on 20 January 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

Hack and Macro are two words for the same thing with different connotations.

Not so much. A Hack is just that, modifying the game (code or art) to give yourself an advantage. So being able to look through walls or every Mech being transparent except for the CT would be a Hack.

A Macro is a program which simply repeats a set of inputs, it can push game mechanics to their breaking point (RoF macroing a UAC/5 for example) I agree but that is different to changing the game files so your UAC/5 never jams.

[Toydolls]

fil5000, on 21 January 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

I don't doubt it. I bet everyone reading this thread has a dozen screenshots of end of round screens of 1000+ damage rounds for all sorts of weapons in all sorts of mechs. With or without scripts.

I'll run it tonight I hope I run into you, then your mech will add to my end of round damage no doubt.

[Rannos]

Kanaric, on 21 January 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

NSFW

What? :stonk:

[fil5000]

Toydolls, on 21 January 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

I'll run it tonight I hope I run into you, then your mech will add to my end of round damage no doubt.

I'm not disputing that you do well with it. I'm saying I think the gauss and the PPC are generally better choices. Run whatever you want man, I honestly couldn't care less.

[Toydolls]

gauss is better ppc however na not til the effect is added then it will be

[Mechrophilia]

True game macros are scripts that use the game's program language to execute stuff. You can't create them unless you are supplied with a commands and syntax list, and some way to impliment them, like a console command prompt. These true macros can be pretty powerful.

The kind of 'macros' that you make with programmable keyboards, mice, nostromos, etc., are really nothing more than keystroke emulation. They are far more limited in what they can do, and to a great degree can be duplicated by nimble hands.

I consider the former boarderline cheating. It creates a huge disparity between players based on nothing more than script creation ability rather than skill at the game. But the latter seems fine to me. It doesn't require any special knowledge, it isn't overly powerful, and you can pick-up a Razer Arctosa, fully programmable keyboard for 40 bucks.

[fil5000]

Toydolls, on 21 January 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

gauss is better ppc however na not til the effect is added then it will be

I dunno man, I'd make more of an effort to get out of the way of a four PPC stalker or RS than I would anything running UACs. Those things sting.

[The Cheese]

fil5000, on 21 January 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Yeah, I suspect they'd still take it on a case by case basis, but a lot of the complaining in this thread in particular is about people using it to make sure their UAC doesn't jam, which is utterly benign.

The thing about a case by case basis is that it leaves a lot space for of grey area, and the conclusion will probably depend entirely on the staff member investigating the issue. The problem with that is that it leads to inconsistency in dealing with macro users.


From a user management perspective, that kind of inconsistency is a time bomb just waiting for one person to kick up a stink about it. That's why some games (I'm looking at you, Diablo 3. And no, I'm not starting a Warden discussion. Just don't go there.) simply do not allow any 3rd party apps to be used.

[fil5000]

The Cheese, on 21 January 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

The thing about a case by case basis is that it leaves a lot space for of grey area, and the conclusion will probably depend entirely on the staff member investigating the issue. The problem with that is that it leads to inconsistency in dealing with macro users.


From a user management perspective, that kind of inconsistency is a time bomb just waiting for one person to kick up a stink about it. That's why some games (I'm looking at you, Diablo 3. And no, I'm not starting a Warden discussion. Just don't go there.) simply do not allow any 3rd party apps to be used.

Fair points all - but the current state of the game is that these things are allowed, and posters in here are using MY HONOURE as the reason they shouldn't be, and arguing that stuff like the UAC timing script is in and of itself wrong.That is the position I was opposing.

[IceCase88]

Yes... Anything that helps you perform a task you are otherwise unable to do is a hack. So... you use a macro to help you time your UACs so they don't jam. If you can't do it then it is a hack. Retort... I can do it but why if I can make a macro to do it... Rebuttal... You can target and aim so why not make a macro to aim for you? That would be an aimbot and that is a hack. Don't be lazy. It is bad enough we are sitting on our *****, probably snacking. Do we really need to be even more lazy by not pushing a couple of extra button pushes? Really? Has it gotten that bad? Really? Scripts/Macros/Hacks... all the same.

[mekabuser]

having a macro that maximizes the uac5 firing rate without jamming the weapon is circumventing the weapons system as designed by the devs.
The REASON the weapon has a high dps is because of the JAMMING mechanism.
The IDEA being, sure, you have high rof and dps but that is offset by the possibility of jamming the weapon.

A macro that circumvents the jam, and maximizes the rof, BREAKS the weapon balance.
I dont know about other macros, im sure there are many that are benign, but THIS one is utter bs.
I dont care if God himself steps up and says its ok, its still bs.
I dont know what the answer is, I dont care, It breaks the mechanic of the weapon.

I suppose you all think a macro that doesnt allow you to fire if it would over heat you is acceptable also ?
Its the same thing as the uac 5 no jam macro.

[John Horrigan]

I use a macro to toggle my tag for 60 sec at a time .. the devs fault for making it non toggle really - cant be arsed to hold down a key for the whole match ...
does it make me a bad person .. I dunno ... l certainly am a lazy F*** though XD

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

From a personal standpoint I look at it like this.

If you are using any external program or function that is not intended to be used within the game to gain a possibly percieved "Edge" in combat, then it can be considered such.

Now the problem comes in that, where do you draw the line in this day and age? I mean, I have a variable DPI mouse for gaming. Is it cheating if I change my DPI settings with a click of a button mid play? Some may say yes, some may say no.

On the other hand, many would freak out over having something akin to a "Turbo" button on a controller/mouse. [much the reason the Razer Xbox 360 controllers [the first runs] were banned from MLG gameplay.]

Macro's are often times considered in the "turbo" button catagory.

Edited by Jade Kitsune, 22 January 2013 - 12:06 AM.

[N0MAD]

John Horrigan, on 21 January 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

I use a macro to toggle my tag for 60 sec at a time .. the devs fault for making it non toggle really - cant be arsed to hold down a key for the whole match ...
does it make me a bad person .. I dunno ... l certainly am a lazy F*** though XD

The Lance Armstrong version of this post.
I use steroids to help me win.. its gods fault for not making me a super athlete - cant be arsed to train...
does this make me a bad person.. i dunno.. i certainly am a cheating F..k tho

[The Cheese]

fil5000, on 21 January 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

Fair points all - but the current state of the game is that these things are allowed, and posters in here are using MY HONOURE as the reason they shouldn't be, and arguing that stuff like the UAC timing script is in and of itself wrong.That is the position I was opposing.

With the current state of the game, yeah. It's hard to conclusively argue that it's wrong to use them. There's no real competitive scene yet, so there's not much to be gained from using them or lost from not using them. Fact is, short of assisted aiming or piloting macros, anything you can macro to a key can be done without much effort with normal key mapping.

I maintain that it's questionable territory when playing competitively though.

As for the TAG macro, I have the left shift mapped to weapon group 6, and TAG always mapped to weapon group 6. That way I can easily hold it down for as long as I need.

Edited by The Cheese, 22 January 2013 - 01:35 AM.

[Mack1]

I have always viewed Macros as cheating as it is not in the game design and does give huge advantages to players that use them.

I personally like to do everything with skill, it makes victory all the more satisfying, having a key that executes a series of commands without any interaction is not using skill, it's actually bypassing the skill and using automation.