187 replies to this topic

[Glory in the Highest]

I have to agree that players not on the official rosters should not play, even if the teams agree to it.

But I don't make the rules.

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

ReD3y3, on 12 March 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Yea I saw that you played.

Actually, I didn't, at least not the day this conversation is reffering too

That day being the weekday where DV8 and Blazing Aces got 2 matches in.

Edited by Z0MBIE Y0SHI, 12 March 2013 - 02:05 PM.

[Mongoose Trueborn]

M3atloaf, on 12 March 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

Yes, that rules are applied unequally and on a whim. This has been a constant issue throughout the season and has caused a lot of discord among many teams.

Wanna read what capt midnight said about you guys?

captain midnight said:

http://www.jade-wolf.com/[/url]

Later I posted smacktalking them in one of their threads, saying they sucked and were too chicken to scrim us, then the next day they said to let them know what time we should scrim. That was yesterday, so we need to try and figure out what time we can play and hopefully get a scrim in.

These guys were not very tough to stomp and I just think that because of the smacktalk back and forth we obviously have to go and show them up; PureNO is a streamer and I'll broadcast my stream and put up a post on general (we can do Bo3 or something). It'll be great fun.

Didn't you guys let him into your clan? Just wait until he leaves and takes half your crew. It will be too funny.

I'm glad you follow us so close Meatloaf. You guys got lucky getting this far and your party is about to end. Hope we get the chance to roll you and your cap first strats 3-0 but I doubt you will make it that far. Blazing aces was much better than you guys on your best night.

Edited by Mongoose Trueborn, 12 March 2013 - 02:30 PM.

[BoyWonder]

Glory, on 12 March 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

I have to agree that players not on the official rosters should not play, even if the teams agree to it.

But I don't make the rules.

I understand the thought process behind it, but like most rules its unenforceable and up to the individual teams. Very easy for any team, especially the larger ones with 50+ to just create smurf accounts and input anybody they want.

If both teams agree to it, provided it's someone legitimately on their roster, I do not see the issue.

[M3atloaf]

BoyWonder, on 12 March 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

I understand the thought process behind it, but like most rules its unenforceable and up to the individual teams. Very easy for any team, especially the larger ones with 50+ to just create smurf accounts and input anybody they want.

If both teams agree to it, provided it's someone legitimately on their roster, I do not see the issue.

That's the issue here. DV8 fielded someone NOT on their roster and it was allowed. What the f*ck is the point forcing us to have rosters if it isn't going be enforced?

It doesn't matter what both teams decide to do. If this were the case, then JW could agree to fight KaoS with 2/2/2/2 drop decs for all 5 drops and it be ok. Imagine two teams in the NFL agreeing that holding was OK for the entire game they were playing. It doesn't f*cking matter. Rules are rules and cheating is cheating. It's that ******* simple. DV8 cheated and it is being allowed with no consequences. I've got plenty of members that I'd like to field but can't because they aren't on the roster. Maybe I should just play them and not worry about it.

[BoyWonder]

M3atloaf, on 12 March 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

That's the issue here. DV8 fielded someone NOT on their roster and it was allowed. What the f*ck is the point forcing us to have rosters if it isn't going be enforced?

Will try to type slower for you high speed... the rule was put in to stop things like team stacking/switching when either your real team was out or to help out friends, like having a mix of two teams competing under one name. As I have already said I do not see what the issue is provided the person is legitimately on their roster. Brain still hurt? let me give you a practical example.

Example: Lets say CSR lowered our standards and decided to let you join, you would be allowed to play with us in the playoffs because you are not on the Jade Puppies anymore. You have no affiliation, you will not be dropping with them anymore, you have passed the cadet stage and are an actual member.. Calm yourself, at this point your palms are undoubtedly sweaty and you cant believe that your clan will finally matter... however this was just an example.

You ask what the point of a roster is if we can break it? Great question, now I am not the political side of CSR, and perhaps Kage will chime in, but I believe he has stated to our unit (and I am assuming others) that as long as both teams agree to letting players not on the final roster play, then he is okay with it. Provided that is true, as you have already mentioned, both teams have agreed so.... shhh little one, the adults are talking.

M3atloaf, on 12 March 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

It doesn't matter what both teams decide to do. If this were the case, then JW could agree to fight KaoS with 2/2/2/2 drop decs for all 5 drops and it be ok. Imagine two teams in the NFL agreeing that holding was OK for the entire game they were playing. It doesn't f*cking matter. Rules are rules and cheating is cheating. It's that ******* simple. DV8 cheated and it is being allowed with no consequences. I've got plenty of members that I'd like to field but can't because they aren't on the roster. Maybe I should just play them and not worry about it.

Rather the leap. At this point I can only assume that your fascination with DV8 is one part fear, one part pent up desire for them to treat you like a gimp and acknowledge you with their touch.

[Mad Cat II]

Never been worried about DV8 nor any other clan. If they agree to allow open rosters than any of JWs 8 mans could be fielded for the win.

Seems like alot of jaw flapping out of fear or some thumb sucking e-peen need. Shut up and mech up boys. Talk doesn't matter in JW. If you win on the field than RESPECT the victory. Winning is all that matters. Might makes right and smack talk is a handicap for those who can not intimidate their opponents any other way.

Die Well in the coming fight.

Plain and simple cry to someone who cares.

[BoyWonder]

Mad Cat II, on 12 March 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Seems like alot of jaw flapping out of fear or some thumb sucking e-peen need. Shut up and mech up boys. Talk doesn't matter in JW.

Like throwing around accusations of cheating? Agreed with the rest.

[M3atloaf]

BoyWonder, on 12 March 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

Will try to type slower for you high speed... the rule was put in to stop things like team stacking/switching when either your real team was out or to help out friends, like having a mix of two teams competing under one name. As I have already said I do not see what the issue is provided the person is legitimately on their roster. Brain still hurt? let me give you a practical example.

Example: Lets say CSR lowered our standards and decided to let you join, you would be allowed to play with us in the playoffs because you are not on the Jade Puppies anymore. You have no affiliation, you will not be dropping with them anymore, you have passed the cadet stage and are an actual member.. Calm yourself, at this point your palms are undoubtedly sweaty and you cant believe that your clan will finally matter... however this was just an example.

You ask what the point of a roster is if we can break it? Great question, now I am not the political side of CSR, and perhaps Kage will chime in, but I believe he has stated to our unit (and I am assuming others) that as long as both teams agree to letting players not on the final roster play, then he is okay with it. Provided that is true, as you have already mentioned, both teams have agreed so.... shhh little one, the adults are talking.



Rather the leap. At this point I can only assume that your fascination with DV8 is one part fear, one part pent up desire for them to treat you like a gimp and acknowledge you with their touch.

What your simple mind fails to comprehend is that rules are rules, simple as that. They aren't in place for your on interpretation of them or for them to be applied as you wish. They are there because they are the rules, plain and simple.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Jade Wolf has no fear of DV8, myself included. We've acknowledged them with our touch numerous times and if you look at Division 4, you'll see that it didn't go well for them. There must be something wrong in your head to think that the only team they lost to in the season is scared.

I also don't know what warped little planet you're on but I wouldn't ever lower my standards enough to be on the same team with you. I'd shoot for someone with class and skill like KaoS.

BoyWonder, on 12 March 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

Like throwing around accusations of cheating? Agreed with the rest.

Nothing was thrown around. The facts are present and nobody is arguing them.

[Captain Midnight]

Boy Wonder, rules are rules there is no nuance. There is no intent. The letter is the law, and that's that. When the rules turn into guidelines we have anarchy and the integrity of the league is compromised. I think that is the point Meatloaf is trying to express. The rules are RULES, not guidelines.

Personally though? I don't really care, let them have whoever they want in their matches, that's hardly the worst problem this league faces. There has been an ABSURD amount of procedural wrangling involved in this tournament, and I've seen people disconnecting at the start of matches on purpose so they can see what the opponents have and re-drop or avoid a map, taking advantage of the mulligan rule. I've seen people schedule matches specifically to avoid the ace players of other teams, or stop dropping in the middle to psych people out and spread the matches out into three separate sets over multiple weeks periods, abusing all the scheduling lee-way. There is ZERO sportsmanship, and every team hates every other team, and will do anything to get a win and that includes ingame and out of game things. Everyone is going to abuse every word in the rules to get every cheap win they can, and on top of that the rules have changed on a weekly basis.

Overall I'm just really apathetic now. Winning doesn't mean you're the best anymore, not necessarily anyways, because so much of winning has become procedural. Victory, to me, comes on the battlefield. My best 8 against your best 8. The teams in this tournament seem to be more interested in winning matches than being the best. The team that wins this tournament won't be able to claim they are the BEST, merely that they are pretty good and they happened to win this particular tournament, and that's sad, and it's because the rules keep changing and it's turned into a bunch of ******** where we are playing rules lawyer online instead of mechwarrior online.

Edited by Captain Midnight, 12 March 2013 - 06:50 PM.

[BoyWonder]

Meatloaf... hahah

Captain Midnight, on 12 March 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

Boy Wonder, rules are rules there is no nuance. There is no intent. The letter is the law, and that's that. When the rules turn into guidelines we have anarchy and the integrity of the league is compromised. I think that is the point Meatloaf is trying to express. The rules are RULES, not guidelines.

Personally though? I don't really care, let them have whoever they want in their matches, that's hardly the worst problem this league faces. There has been an ABSURD amount of procedural wrangling involved in this tournament, and I've seen people disconnecting at the start of matches on purpose so they can see what the opponents have and re-drop. I've seen people schedule matches specifically to avoid the ace players of other teams, or stop dropping in the middle to psych people out. There is ZERO sportsmanship, and every team hates every other team, and will do anything to get a win and that includes ingame and out of game things. Everyone is going to abuse every word in the rules to get every cheap win they can, and on top of that the rules have changed on a weekly basis.

Overall I'm just really apathetic now. Winning doesn't mean you're the best anymore, not necessarily anyways, because so much of winning has become procedural. Victory, to me, comes on the battlefield. My best 8 against your best 8. The teams in this tournament seem to be more interested in winning matches than being the best. The team that wins this tournament won't be able to claim they are the BEST, merely that they are pretty good and they happened to win this particular tournament, and that's sad.

And if the person that makes the rules says its okay? You both seem to have missed that point.

As for the tournament, the same thing can be said for any tournament. No offense intended, but look at ELP, things change.

Edited for your edit: "rules lawyer online"...really?

Edited by BoyWonder, 12 March 2013 - 07:14 PM.

[Mad Cat II]

BoyWonder, on 12 March 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

And if the person that makes the rules says its okay? You both seem to have missed that point.

I think the point you are missing is that ANY deviation from the rules that everyone else has played by can be considered an unfair advantage. Thus it really doesn't matter if someone "ok'd" the rule change. That does not make it any less of an advantage over the teams that did not get to use that system.

[BoyWonder]

Mad Cat II, on 12 March 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

I think the point you are missing is that ANY deviation from the rules that everyone else has played by can be considered an unfair advantage. Thus it really doesn't matter if someone "ok'd" the rule change. That does not make it any less of an advantage over the teams that did not get to use that system.

It is an option for everyone, not just DV8 and BA. Therefore it is not an unfair advantage, its a rule change that you did not like.

Sounds like you have an issue with RHOD and not BOTH teams that agreed to exercise that option.

Edit: I believe BA fielded a guy not on their roster who did very well (correct me if I am wrong BA), would you have accused BA of cheating had they won?

Edited by BoyWonder, 12 March 2013 - 07:19 PM.

[Mad Cat II]

BoyWonder, on 12 March 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

It is an option for everyone, not just DV8 and BA. Therefore it is not an unfair advantage, its a rule change that you did not like.

Sounds like you have an issue with RHOD and not BOTH teams that agreed to exercise that option.

Edit: I believe BA fielded a guy not on their roster who did very well (correct me if I am wrong BA), would you have accused BA of cheating had they won?

Once again, I don't think it is cheating per-say. But it is clearly an advantage that the teams who did trials BEFORE the rule change did not have. So in that spirit I think those teams got screwed. Please read my post before responding. I have never said cheating so I'm going to respond negatively if you keep implying that I did OR that I don't like the rule change.

Edited by Mad Cat II, 12 March 2013 - 07:24 PM.

[M3atloaf]

I have issues with both teams doing it. BA was forced to sit their player earlier in the week that they added due to agreement on Sunday. Only after DV8 fielded the player not on their roster and was called out on it by BA was this changed. The whole set of 5 for those teams should be either forfeited or replayed from start to finish.

[BoyWonder]

Mad Cat II, on 12 March 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

Once again, I don't think it is cheating per-say. But it is clearly an advantage that the teams who did trials BEFORE the rule change did not have. So in that spirit I think those teams got screwed. Please read my post before responding. I have never said cheating so I'm going to respond negatively if you keep implying that I did.

Mad, rosters were locked on week 8, so any team beforehand did not get screwed. I guess the bigger question is when you found out about the rule, because I head of it (and again I dont even matter in my clan and still heard about it) in week 8. No team should of had a disadvantage provided the info was released uniformly.

Also, if you have been reading, the cheating comment was clearly intended for meatloaf who called them on it. You have not, so of course its not intended for you.

Feel free to PM me if you would like to talk on comms as I feel we have soiled this thread enough.

[Mad Cat II]

BoyWonder, on 12 March 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

Mad, rosters were locked on week 8, so any team beforehand did not get screwed. I guess the bigger question is when you found out about the rule, because I head of it (and again I dont even matter in my clan and still heard about it) in week 8. No team should of had a disadvantage provided the info was released uniformly.

Also, if you have been reading, the cheating comment was clearly intended for meatloaf who called them on it. You have not, so of course its not intended for you.

Feel free to PM me if you would like to talk on comms as I feel we have soiled this thread enough.

I am near certain that this thread was soiled long before I posted. It is honorable to come to the defense of your ally but transparent. We can settle our differences on the field if you like. JW is always ready for scrim challenges.

[BoyWonder]

Mad Cat II, on 12 March 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

I am near certain that this thread was soiled long before I posted. It is honorable to come to the defense of your ally but transparent. We can settle our differences on the field if you like. JW is always ready for scrim challenges.

I am friends with DV8, but would come to your defense just as quickly should someone wrongly accuse you cheating. I am on your NA comms if you would like to discuss this more, or to talk about scrims.

[GaussDragon]

M3atloaf, on 12 March 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

I'd shoot for someone with class and skill like KaoS.

I appreciate the compliments, however we're not exactly known around here for our class, haha.

M3atloaf, on 12 March 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

I have issues with both teams doing it. BA was forced to sit their player earlier in the week that they added due to agreement on Sunday. Only after DV8 fielded the player not on their roster and was called out on it by BA was this changed. The whole set of 5 for those teams should be either forfeited or replayed from start to finish.

What happened exactly?

BoyWonder, on 12 March 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

I feel we have soiled this thread enough.

Nono, keep the /popcorn going. Between this thread and the one on the RHOD site, today has been a good day for mecha drama.

[machine]

Gauss is right... we are starving for some drama...

(not really)

I would say it isnt cheating or an unfair advantage, rather just stupid to deviate from te rule everyone has to play by. I dunno man I'm just thinking out loud and care not. Get all the ringers and super stars... then face KaoS. Not because we are awesome (lol) but because we love hard fights!