17 replies to this topic

[Jackie Hawker]

I am currently looking into buying an awesome to add some proper long range firepower to my pretty empty mechlab, so, as a PPC fan, I was comparing the cheap 8Q to the expensive 9M, and noticed the game said the 8Q has "28 standard heat sinks" and the 9M has "20 double heat sinks"
now this is a pretty stunning number to somebody who pilots a cicada with 3 double heat sinks (that do a damn good job of keeping my ERPPC firing) but then I checked the stats on the stock 3C, and noted that it listed 11 standard heat sinks, now I have beefed up the armor on mine a bit, but not enough that I should lose 8 heat sinks worth of weight, and more importantly, my heat efficiency is higher than the standard 3C's
to sum up a long rant, I have determined that the listed number for heat sinks on sold mechs is not the number of heat sinks within the mech, so I have to ask, how the hell is that number calculated?

EDIT: just checked and it lists my 3C as mounting 13 double sinks, which has furthered my confusion

Edited by Tecar, 22 January 2013 - 01:47 PM.

[Rizzelbizzeg]

Engines come with heat sinks in them up to a maximum of 10 sinks (depending on engine size) that you cannot change. You need at least 10 to run your mech no matter what. Take all your sinks off (or just take your engine off real quick) and see in the mechlab how many you have.

Edit: so in your 3c, you have 10 engine + 3 floating.

Edited by Rizzelbizzeg, 22 January 2013 - 01:50 PM.

[Pyrrho]

Each mech gets a number of internal heat sinks in the engine. Any DHS in the engine operate with the true 2x modifier to dissiparion while those outside of the engine only run at 1.4x efficiency.

If you see three crit-slotted heat sinks in your loadout, but the mechlab says you have 11 heat sinks installed, 8 are in the engine. If you are using Double Heat Sinks, the 8 in the engine are counted as 16 Standard Heat Sinks and the 3 outside are counted as 4.2 Heat Sinks.

I would greatly appeciate anyone with better knowledge to correct me!

[TG Spoonman]

There are a number of heatsinks built into the engine of your mech that count towards this total.If you have 3 heatsinks equiped, and you have 13 total, you have an engine in the 250-270 range because those engines have 10 built in heatsinks.

[Jackie Hawker]

thanks a lot, I'm now wondering about the engine heat sink slot I crammed the third and final DHS into, but that's kind of irrelevant

[Buckminster]

The number of heatsinks in an engine is equal to it's rating divided by 25, rounded down. So my Raven with a 210 engine has 8 (210 / 25 = 8.4) internal heat sinks to it. I am required to have a minimum of 10 heat sinks, so I'll end up with two additional heat sinks.

Double Heat Sinks (DHS) dissipate more heat per sink. In-engine heat sinks count as 2 regular heat sinks, and out of engine heat sinks count as 1.4 heat sinks. So even with fewer heat sinks, you get more heat removing ability.

The Awesome 9N, with 20 DHS has (10 * 2) + (10 * 1.4) = 34 heat sinks worth of cooling.

Edit: Bad Math

Edited by Buckminster, 22 January 2013 - 07:13 PM.

[Vincent Lynch]

Buckminster, on 22 January 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

The Awesome 9N, with 20 DHS has (10 * 2) + (10 * 1.4) = 38 heat sinks worth of cooling.

that would make 34 single heat sinks worth of cooling.
Also, if they did not change the heat sink mechanics during the last patch, this is not entirely true.
DHS work as 2.0 if they fit in the engine even if you have more than 10.
So the AWS-9M, with it's 320 engine, has 12 heat sinks working at 2.0 and only 8 at 1.4, so this gives you a total equivalent of (12*2)+(8*1.4)=35.2 single heat sinks worth equivalent of cooling.

Note that the first 10 DHS always cool at double capacity, regardless of if they are in the engine or not.

[ForestWulf]

Ok... But dose the engine only act as x1 standerd heatsinks and your double's act as x1.4 insted of an acual x2? Also what about the doubles you add to your engine? Like a 300 that adds 2 slots for your heatsinks. Do they act as a x1.4 heatheatsink or a x1 standerd heatsink like the rest of the engine? More info would be greatly appeciated.

[ForestWulf]

Ah... ansered my question while I was typing it.

[Rizzelbizzeg]

Vincent Lynch, on 22 January 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

...
DHS work as 2.0 if they fit in the engine even if you have more than 10.
...
Note that the first 10 DHS always cool at double capacity, regardless of if they are in the engine or not.

Are you sure? I thought it was 2.0 for sinks in the engine, 1.4 for all others including slots that are in engine. I also didn't know about an engine with 8 sinks, whether the 2 outside (mandatory for mech to run) get 1.4 or 2.0.

The Missourian in me will check when I get off work and relay what I find.

[Deamhan]

As stated. Engine rating divided by 25 (rounded down) up to a max of 10, then you are given slots on the engine to let you equip more.

Standard have a heat of 1 while double is 1.4 but takes up 3 slots instead of a standard's one slot. This is a fact that has no impact on the number of heat sinks that come with an engine nor does it have an impact on the number of engine slots used up by ones that you add to it. One engine slot is used per heat sink regardless if double or not.

From my understanding, mechs start with a heat rating of 30 + 10 needed for having an engine + any extra. Standard heat sinks also have a -.1 heat/sec value and double have a -.14 heat/sec value.

Weapons generate heat when fired. An example being the medium laser at 4 heat when fired. If you only have the base 30 and 10 Standard for the engine, this will register as 10% heat generated assuming a base of 0% (map dependent).

This next part I'm not sure of. I don't know if the 30 heat rating is just a static heat rating. If so then....

With 10 standard heat sinks, the rate of dissipation would be -1 heat / second so it would take 4 seconds for that 10% to drop down to 0% again.

On my Cat, I have the std 315 and double heat sinks. So I have the 10 from the engine plus 2 slots. I also have a heat sink in each side torso for a total of 14 dbl hs. 16.8 + 30 = 46.8 rating with -1.96 heat per second.

Now I forgot to factor something in. The heat generated by the laser is generated over it's shot duration. If it is 2 seconds then that is only 2 heat per second generated and so I don't even see the heat register for just one med laser (I've tested this in game). If I fire two, however, I will see heat generated. The two will generated 4 heat per second over 2 seconds (total of 8 heat) but I dissipate 2 heat per second so I get only 2 heat per second generated over the two seconds for a total of 4 heat. This works out to be about 8.5% heat generated from 0% and is reduced back down to 0% in two seconds. This is pretty much spot on so I would have to concur that the +30 heat rating is just a static heat rating that all mechs have. It's not impacted by the dbl hs upgrade in anyway.

Edited by Deamhan, 22 January 2013 - 02:57 PM.

[FiveDigits]

Vincent Lynch, on 22 January 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

[...] Also, if they did not change the heat sink mechanics during the last patch, this is not entirely true.
DHS work as 2.0 if they fit in the engine even if you have more than 10.
So the AWS-9M, with it's 320 engine, has 12 heat sinks working at 2.0 and only 8 at 1.4, so this gives you a total equivalent of (12*2)+(8*1.4)=35.2 single heat sinks worth equivalent of cooling.

Note that the first 10 DHS always cool at double capacity, regardless of if they are in the engine or not.

This is incorrect.
Only the up to 10 in-engine heat sinks (1 per 25 rating up to 250) are true 2.0 DHS.
All external DHS and those in additional heat sink slots (1 per 25 rating from 275 upwards) are rated at 1.4.
Please don't spread misinformation.

Dev confirmation:

Bryan Ekman, on 22 November 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

Courtsey of Mr. Bradley.

Quote

1) Double heat sinks internal to the engine are set to increase the heat scale by 2 points and provide -0.2 heat/sec cooling. Double heat sinks that you add to your Mech increase the heat scale by 1.4 points and provide -0.14 heat/sec cooling. (For reference, single heat sinks increase the scale by 1 and cool -0.1 heat/sec. The heat scale starts at 30 and is then is increased based on the heat sinks in your Mech.) [...]

Edited by FiveDigits, 22 January 2013 - 03:16 PM.

[Novawrecker]

Supposedly it's DHS work as 2.0 up to the first 10 in engine (pending on engine rating). All other heat sinks past 10 (weather engine allocated or not) worked as 1.4. Or so it was explained and seems to appear on mech lab sheets.

[IceSerpent]

Rizzelbizzeg, on 22 January 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

Are you sure? I thought it was 2.0 for sinks in the engine, 1.4 for all others including slots that are in engine. I also didn't know about an engine with 8 sinks, whether the 2 outside (mandatory for mech to run) get 1.4 or 2.0.

All DHS that come with the engine (ones you can't move around) count as 2.0, all other DHS (including ones you put into the engine slot and including extra ones you need to get to required 10) count as 1.4. In other words, if you dragged that heatsink from the inventory - it's 1.4, if you dragged the engine from the inventory - all heatsinks that came with that engine are 2.0.

[Rizzelbizzeg]

IceSerpent, on 22 January 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

All DHS that come with the engine (ones you can't move around) count as 2.0, all other DHS (including ones you put into the engine slot and including extra ones you need to get to required 10) count as 1.4. In other words, if you dragged that heatsink from the inventory - it's 1.4, if you dragged the engine from the inventory - all heatsinks that came with that engine are 2.0.

Cool, that checks out thanks. Here's what I saw in the mechlab for a mech with dhs

200std: 8 engine dhs + 2 ext dhs = 1.13
290std: 10 engine dhs = 1.16
290std: 10 edhs + 1 ext dhs = 1.21
290std: 10 edhs + 1 engine slot dhs = 1.21

[Vincent Lynch]

FiveDigits, on 22 January 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

This is incorrect.
Only the up to 10 in-engine heat sinks (1 per 25 rating up to 250) are true 2.0 DHS.
All external DHS and those in additional heat sink slots (1 per 25 rating from 275 upwards) are rated at 1.4.
Please don't spread misinformation.

I answered the question to my best knowledge. I'm not claiming i'm always right, but please stop accusing me of spreading misinformation deliberately. Such accusations are improper behavior.

[MustrumRidcully]

It's really a trivial matter, as long as you know that DOuble means 1.4 under certain circumstances and... GAARGH!

[NCGuthwulf]

Heat sinks! OH my loves, how I adore thee...

Things to know about heat sinks:

1) Heat sinks increase the amount of times you can fire your guns before you overheat (capacity).
2) Larger numbers of heat sinks increase your heat dissipation (how fast you cool down so you can shoot again).
3) Single heat sinks take 1 slot and 1 ton.
4) Double heat sinks take 3 slots and 1 ton. They are 1.4 times as effective. This means that if you have lots of slots but are suffering for tonnage, double heat sinks are great.
5) Engines come with heat sinks, 1 / 25 rating until 250. At 275 you get 10 heat sinks in the engine and room to add 1 more.

With that in mind, my most successful mech builds ALL involve the largest possible engine I can get and double heat sinks. For example, a Atlas with a Std 325 with double heatsinks has 13 double heat sinks in the 6 slots the engine takes (assuming you slotted the 3 doubles the engine can take). That is the same as a Std 325 with 3 engine heat sinks and 5 single heat sinks. I save 5 tons and 5 slots right there.