94 replies to this topic

[LoneGunman]

I still think it should effectively look like a Q3 railgun but "more realistic". Basically, you've got a trail that fades (like a meteorite burning up in the atmo). So, you'd get a this streak (color is up to you) that fades from the gun through towards the target. Maybe the streak is just cloud vapor from the air that burned/friction of the projectile.

As for muzzle flash, you could have a slight flash since the projectile is burning air, even in the chamber, so you could have a literal smoking barrel with each shot. Could be a great limiting mechanic as well where the barrel heats up with each successful firing so you have to control your rate of fire or risk overheating the gun (with upgrades like a cooling jacket that can allow you to effectively increase your rate of fire). Of course, if you're in the middle of a firefight and are desperate, you can take the chance and fire off the X rounds you know will lock-up the gun hoping they'll be enough to disable or slow down your opponent.

[Legionn]

Cavadus, on 07 November 2011 - 11:45 AM, said:

Not really. They both magnetically propel the projectile. The difference is in how they generate the magnetic fields but magnetism is magnetism is magnetism. It's universal.

Here's some reading for you:

Rail Gun
-Homopolar Motor
Gauss Gun

It's all in the context of the discussion and the technical sense of the the wording. The Gauss gun and the Rail gun are nearly the same weapon but I didn't say they were totally different to begin with. They have significant differences and to the context of this discussion, we are not talking about magnetism, or principles of operation. The discussion is about muzzle flash and projectile appearance and that's where both differ from each other by a significant amount. The bottom line here is, what should the gauss rifle look like? (It's right in the title of the OP if you forgot.) No one cares how it works, only what it should realistically look like as it pertains to Mechwarrior Online. People keep posting the Navy's rail gun tests to show what the gauss gun's muzzle flash and projectile should look like when they are in effect incomparable for this discussion.

Please stop taking stuff out of context and read so far into it that you forget what the topic is about. (btw, magnetism is not universal. Magnetic fields generated by ferromagnets are not the same as ferrimagnets that are not the same as antiferromagnets all of which are magnets. Also when you get into supercooled materials or gravity induced states magnetic fields get weird.)

[Ironhawk]

So... this is an interesting subject. Won't expand on the technical aspects since they seem to have been quite thoroughly covered here. Though the Doppler effect of a magnetically propelled slug may make more sense with the representation made within LL, (it may just be me but) I find that the periodic rings tend to create some form of distraction or pause in the movement, making the trace less fluid. What's also trick is that it has to avoid looking too similar to a ray-type of weapon.
In this effect attempt below, I went back to MW4 coil effect but added 2 changes: a sequenced motion blur to increase the feeling of speed and a fading hue of colors to have the trail fade away as the slug travels (the latter is also inspired by aurora borealis, a natural, magnetic phenomenon as we all know.)
Anyhow, here it is (side view, no perspective on the coil):


I would greatly appreciate your comments. I will probably tweak accordingly afterwards. Thanks in advance.

[Kasiagora]

I don't see any reason not to have it work similarly to the rail guns in those videos. Big muzzle flash from the gun, maybe show a small plasma trail from the round even though I don't think it'd be noticeable on the scale we're talking about. And then a huge explosion when it hits the target! That'd set it apart significantly from your normal autocannon round but I'd also like a little graphic of the sabot falling away like when you shoot a shotgun and can see the wad fly along a shorter path following the shot or slug (I've never shot those new sabots for shotguns so I don't really know what they'd look like in comparison).

If we're going for artistic coolness I'd like a slightly lighter white trail with momentary distortion like warped glass around the path of the round and a faint vapor effect as it disperses so that it might look like a kind of see-though, clear, smoke trail. Like the slug is bending space around it with how fast it's going. I mean, hey! Why not?

[PewPew]

I find it really funny how people keep referring to physics to justify their idea, but only enough physics that they get what they want.

All I want is the removal of the blue rings. To be replaced by heavy, vortexing distortion, much like how the slo-mo bullets in the Matrix look.

[Alaric Wolf Kerensky]

One thing is for certain, Gauss Rifles should NOT have rings around them again. I am also against a muzzle flash, because I am not sure the magnetic coils could cause any sort of flash. What I want to see is recoil, probably a concussive effect around the muzzle, and a 'blur' for the projectile, which could then be followed by a short, thin streak of fire and vapor. I would not be surprised for a hyper-sonic round to leave a very light and brief vaporization trail, especially if it is fiction-lighting the air on fire.

[TheRulesLawyer]

I think they should leave a trail of pink hearts, yellow moons, orange stars, and green clovers

Edited by TheRulesLawyer, 24 January 2012 - 12:37 PM.

[Alaric Wolf Kerensky]

Kasiagora, on 24 January 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

I don't see any reason not to have it work similarly to the rail guns in those videos. Big muzzle flash from the gun, maybe show a small plasma trail from the round even though I don't think it'd be noticeable on the scale we're talking about. And then a huge explosion when it hits the target! That'd set it apart significantly from your normal autocannon round but I'd also like a little graphic of the sabot falling away like when you shoot a shotgun and can see the wad fly along a shorter path following the shot or slug (I've never shot those new sabots for shotguns so I don't really know what they'd look like in comparison).

If we're going for artistic coolness I'd like a slightly lighter white trail with momentary distortion like warped glass around the path of the round and a faint vapor effect as it disperses so that it might look like a kind of see-though, clear, smoke trail. Like the slug is bending space around it with how fast it's going. I mean, hey! Why not?

For one, Gauss Rifles do not use sabots. A sabot would be completely useless, as it is a method to increase the force applied to a shell fired using pressure in a tube, such as with firearms. The sabot fills up the space around a thin (compared to the barrel's caliber) penetrator and falls off outside of the barrel. Gauss Rifles use magnetic fields to launch the round, without the round ever coming into contact with the sides of the Rifle. A sabot would only add useless mass to the projectile and be a waste of space and energy.

[TheRulesLawyer]

Alaric Wolf Kerensky, on 24 January 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

For one, Gauss Rifles do not use sabots. A sabot would be completely useless, as it is a method to increase the force applied to a shell fired using pressure in a tube, such as with firearms. The sabot fills up the space around a thin (compared to the barrel's caliber) penetrator and falls off outside of the barrel. Gauss Rifles use magnetic fields to launch the round, without the round ever coming into contact with the sides of the Rifle. A sabot would only add useless mass to the projectile and be a waste of space and energy.

That's not quite accurate. I've heard of EM guns (gauss/rail) occasionally using sabots to accelerate a non ferrous projectile. After all you can't launch a magnetically inert load.

Edited by TheRulesLawyer, 24 January 2012 - 01:30 PM.

[VYCanis]

In the case of railguns, discarding sabots are perfectly justified.

in the case of BT gauss rifles...not so much since they are fluffed as firing nickel ferrous slugs that are indeed magnetic.

HOWEVER

discarding sabots look really cool, and it can always be justified in so far as the gauss slug itself might need some kind of stabilization/buffer between it and the interior of the barrel.

cause man, it would look pretty sweet to see a gauss slug launch with whatever effect, but have 2 or more pieces of sabot split off from the path of the shot, and smack into/ricochet offa stuff.

rule o cool tends to trump stuff around these parts unless practical but awesome looks cooler

[Marxman]

Id give the gauss rifle a big muzzleblast in shape of a dissolving cone similar in looks to the condesation clouds that form around an aircraft as it aproches mach 1. the slug itself imho should look like a glowing oblongated ball. To make it more visible it should hav a trail that looks like it has enourmous temperature so blue might be okay as long as it isnt to saturated. And the trail shoud be distorted by a a heatblur like the afterburner effects do in most modern flightsims.
A target that is far away but is direcly looking into the barrel should se the muzzleblast and the projectile but the trail should be visible like the shockwave of an explosion when seen from above...A ring of blured air getting larger and finaly dissolving... like the rings on a lake that from when you drop a stune into it. But that effect wanders along the trail from the gun to the target as well just a bit slower then the slug itself. The Rings hitting the ground should blow away dust and dirt to some degree like a fast moving car would when driving over a dusty road forming a line from firing mech to target.
Weh it comes to sound it should sound like a big crakling boom maybe with a bit of an echo and a timedelayed wuschhhhhhhhh or something along those lines.
Naturaly the target should get hit before the sound reaches the target. and it should be higher pitched on the receiving end.

[Dakkonn]

Personally I think if the in game speed doesn't matter and this is just about how it looks. Then just do a blue smoke trail of where it "was". If you pull the trigger and what ever is under your target is hit instantly then just do an after trail kinda like a missile smoke trail but ... the trail appears after the weapon has hit then disappears rapidly.

[Liam]

With slug weight of 125 kg can't be considered as very fast weapon. At 40 MJ kinetic muzzle energy would lead to 800 m/s.
I don't see any reason of blue smoke etc.
shock waves yes but ionized air etc. makes no sense

Even if the gauss slug would weight about 25 kg this means at 40 MJ something around 1780 m/s.
The visible effect should be similar to one which you can see as a spotter in binoculars by being near to the shooter. A bit Matrix like ...

[Spooky]

Btw., the Gauss effects in MWLL look different now.

In a way, MW2 had the most "accurate" visual representation of the Gauss. MW3 had the worst (what were they thinking?). In the books it's always described as a silvery blur. I always envisioned them to have a trail like in Matrix (as PewPew posted), which is something most Gauss effects in MWLL have.

However, this 'Record-Breaking Rail Gun shot' from the US Navy looks more like Pariah Devalis described it.