262 replies to this topic

[Thirdstar]

John Norad, on 24 January 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

This.
I don't understand how people can even begin to think about a serious discussion on that topic. There really isn't more to say about it. Just separate them. Or at the very least have the exact same number of premades on both sides.

THIS THIS THIS THIS.

Why is this so hard to understand?

[Yokaiko]

John Norad, on 24 January 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

This.
I don't understand how people can even begin to think about a serious discussion on that topic. There really isn't more to say about it. Just separate them. Or at the very least have the exact same number of premades on both sides.

Again, you don't know that there aren't. I wish they would put it on the end screen,.

[Serapth]

Thirdstar, on 24 January 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

THIS THIS THIS THIS.

Why is this so hard to understand?

It isn't.

You have two camps of opposition to this train of thought.

Camp 1: Like easy mode and do everything in their power to keep their advantage

Camp 2: Deny that this is actually happening, most likely because they play in non-prime US hours or because they are actually in Camp 1.


Toss a premade on each team, and never more than one, and presto, all magically solved.

[Yokaiko]

Thirdstar, on 24 January 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

THIS THIS THIS THIS.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Because when you do this you have people that can't play with their friends, which ****** people off. PGI ALREADY SAID THAT FOUR MANS MATCH GROUP TO GROUP IF POSSIBLE. Its there in either the patch notes or the command chair post.

[Joseph Mallan]

Yokaiko, on 24 January 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

Pretty sure Tank Girl Barbie knows all about him, I always see them running together.

Thats my point. he said "I always do that solo!". That would be without his better half!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 24 January 2013 - 07:10 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Serapth, on 24 January 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

It isn't.

You have two camps of opposition to this train of thought.

Camp 1: Like easy mode and do everything in their power to keep their advantage

Camp 2: Deny that this is actually happening, most likely because they play in non-prime US hours or because they are actually in Camp 1.


Toss a premade on each team, and never more than one, and presto, all magically solved.

I can tell if US prime is more full of silly Americans or teams, I'd wager the former.

[Serapth]

Yokaiko, on 24 January 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

Again, you don't know that there aren't. I wish they would put it on the end screen,.

So does everyone else.

[Thirdstar]

Yokaiko, on 24 January 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

Again, you don't know that there aren't. I wish they would put it on the end screen,.

And you don't know they are. I too wish that premades were marked. It would put and end to this debate. Mostly anyway.

[Yokaiko]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 January 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

Thats my point. he said "I always do that solo!". That would be without his better half!

ooooooohhhh I'm telling!!!!

[Joseph Mallan]

Yokaiko, on 24 January 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

Again, you don't know that there aren't. I wish they would put it on the end screen,.

This Q4T.

[Critical Fumble]

Thirdstar, on 24 January 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

This hypothesis.

"You often see pugs on these forums cry foul of premades. They claim that premades ruin the game, and that pugs are constantly being wiped off the map, round after round. Eventually, after hearing the anti-premade mantra over and over again, I thought to myself "is this really the case?" Surely, if it were true that pugs were systematically losing matches, that would suggest a deeply flawed matchmaker that was systematically pitting pugs against premades more than against other pugs."

I just realized that he never even addressed the second part of this 'hypothesis', mostly because that's impossible without metrics from PGI.

I pointed out that if he wanted to actually test what he said he wanted to, he'd need to do a by match study of the same people playing solo drops and as part of simple 4-man teams, and possibly as part of a more organised 4-man team. Why? Because his study has no real control sample, and he can't get one the way he's doing it. You could only get a control in a situation like this by having them play in an environment without premade teams; and without PGI wasting their time, its not going to happen.

[Thirdstar]

Yokaiko, on 24 January 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

PGI ALREADY SAID THAT FOUR MANS MATCH GROUP TO GROUP IF POSSIBLE.

Link please. Because i've looked and not found anything definitive either way.

[Yokaiko]

Thirdstar, on 24 January 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

THIS THIS THIS THIS.

Why is this so hard to understand?

SO you want raw pug or eight man?

Do I need to point out how terrible of an idea this is?

[Elandyll]

Depending on the spread of Founder tags on the scoreboard (5-6 founders on one side vs 0 or 1 on the other), and the "reaction based" team play in matches (all team members changing targets together, moving together and reacting to threats in a well coordinated manner focus firing in a way that would be near impossible withoit VOIP), I would say that last night was pretty bad on the Pug v Premade balance. Maybe the patch brought out more pre-mades? Or just bad luck on my part?

In any case, I would venture that imo at least 2/3 of the games I played last night were complete Pug (or quite bad 2 member premade) against (full/ possible sync drop) premades.
In all cases except 1, when it seemed like Pug v Premade, it was a nearly complete stomp (8v0 or 8v1).

Out of about 10 matches, at least 6 were a dead-on Pugstomp (I was on the stomping side for 2 of them, and on the receiving end for 4), 2 were almost certainly Pug v Pug or small Pre made v Premade, and 2 were not quite possible to tell.

The most interesting from an analysis point of view is when you start a match and it seems that you are on a roll, up to 3 kills vs 1 that they have, and suddenly your teammates start to drop like flies, ending in a 8v3 Loss.
You realize right away what is happening: We have been fighting so far the Pug part of a team that has a well coordinated premade that used them as canon fodder...

[Serapth]

Thirdstar, on 24 January 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

Link please. Because i've looked and not found anything definitive either way.

It's in a patch note from a couple months ago.

Beside it are the words (delayed) or something very similar. Nothing in later patch notes indicate it was ever resolved.

[Ken Fury]

Yokaiko, on 24 January 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

Pretty sure Tank Girl Barbie knows all about him, I always see them running together.

Well I rarely play MWO without her, because we usually play our Games together.

Joseph Mallan, on 24 January 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

L/P?
Also... does Barbie Know you drop without her?

Joseph Mallan, on 24 January 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

Thats my point. he said "I always do that solo!". That would be without his better half!

Like / Post ratio, your's is 6251/2924 = 0.47. I usually manage to post without her help . This is of course the most important statistic which one can measure in an Online forum game.

Also SQUAWKS at 11.

[Serapth]

Yokaiko, on 24 January 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

SO you want raw pug or eight man?

Do I need to point out how terrible of an idea this is?

Are you being intentionally dense?

The post was incredibly clear... balance premades across teams. Nothing more.

Nice attempted strawman though.

[Yokaiko]

Thirdstar, on 24 January 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

Link please. Because i've looked and not found anything definitive either way.

Quote

Phase 1: November 6th

Pre-made groups will be limited to a max of 4 players when playing in random public forums. This is a quick fix to ease the PUG vs PRE issues. We do not consider this a final, nor complete fix to matchmaking.

Phase 2: December 4th - 80% (Delayed due to testing)

Pre-Made groups will be able to match against other pre-made groups.

• Min/Max group size: 8 players - Updated
  
• 8 player group matchmaking will not take into consideration Light, Medium, Heavy, Assault classes.
  
• All other forms of matchmaking will still use the current class matching rules.
  
• 2, 3, 4 player groups will be matched against other groups and solo players per Phase 1 rules.

http://mwomercs.com/...79-matchmaking/


Now I'll wait for you to tell me that isn't how it works, or that English isn't your first language.

[Serapth]

Phase 2: December 4th - 80% (Delayed due to testing)

[Thirdstar]

Yokaiko, on 24 January 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Now I'll wait for you to tell me that isn't how it works, or that English isn't your first language.

*sigh*.......You realize that never made it into the game.

Unless you can dig out patch notes that state this isn't the case. I'll wait.

Edited by Thirdstar, 24 January 2013 - 07:16 AM.