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If Lagshield Is Fixed Streak 100% Accuracy Should Be Removed


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#1 ManDaisy

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:55 PM

Sadly I dont see a future for non ECM lights mechs if streaks continue with their 100% hit rate.
SSRM 6 is on its way and when one of unfair advantages of lights is fixed (the lag shield), the bandaid of SSRMs 100% hit rate should be removed. The reappearance of knockdown should also play a heavy role in rebalancing.

Jump is also inadversly affected by the streak 100% hit decision. Many feel the jump is too weak, this may have been because of the poptarting and 100% accuracy os SSRMS in combination with catapults. If 100% streak hitting is removed then jump can once again be more dynamic, giving heavier mechs back their jump potential and making lighter jumping mechs shine even more.

All in all I feel 100% streak accuracy is doing a disservice to every light mech in the game apart from the ECM variants.

Edited by ManDaisy, 23 January 2013 - 09:03 PM.


#2 Solis Obscuri

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:03 PM

The point of Streaks is that if they can achieve lock, they have 100% hit rate (as opposed to ordinary SRMs or LRMs, which may or may not hit at all and have variable cluster grouping.)

However, the ease of getting/maintaining lock with SSRMs, their ability to concentrate damage in the torso, and their damage output... these are things that can be tweaked. And at least two of which ought to be.

#3 Critical Fumble

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:05 PM

I have no issue with streaks being 100% hits when you acquire a lock, but I do want locks with SSRMs to be difficult enough so that they don't totally outclass SRMs of the same pod count.

#4 ManDaisy

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:08 PM

100% kill rate is sadly unrealistic and abusive especially because it invalidates so many light mech variants. 100% hit rate is a mis-translation. In actuality the SSRM would never constantly hit with a full volley in accordance with the old battletech rules. When the actual cause that directed SSRMs to become this way is removed, so should their behavior revert back to when they were less harmful to the game.

Edited by ManDaisy, 23 January 2013 - 09:15 PM.


#5 Texas Merc

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:09 PM

I CANT AIM SO I MOUNT STREAKS

#6 focuspark

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:48 PM

Agreed with OP, SSRM need to lose their 100% chance to hit once the netcode is fixed. SSRM should only prevent firing when the system thinks you'll miss, which is very different from guaranteeing a hit every time.

Quote

Streak Missile Launcher technology was developed and applied to the SRM-2 by the Terran Hegemony in 2647. It ensures that all missile tubes acquire a target lock before its missiles fire. This improvement upon standard Short-Range Missiles conserves ammunition and eliminates unnecessary heat buildup.

The Streak SRM-2 is the lightest and smallest of the Streak missile launchers.

Edited by focuspark, 23 January 2013 - 09:49 PM.


#7 Glythe

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:28 AM

View Postfocuspark, on 23 January 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

Agreed with OP, SSRM need to lose their 100% chance to hit once the netcode is fixed. SSRM should only prevent firing when the system thinks you'll miss, which is very different from guaranteeing a hit every time.


1. Please don't give me a fire prevention system because the game thinks the shot will miss.

2. SSRM really don't add much damage except against fast moving targets. If we go back to less than 100% hit rate then we need to change them back to only hitting the center torso for balance purposes.

#8 Critical Fumble

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:58 AM

View PostGlythe, on 24 January 2013 - 12:28 AM, said:


1. Please don't give me a fire prevention system because the game thinks the shot will miss.

2. SSRM really don't add much damage except against fast moving targets. If we go back to less than 100% hit rate then we need to change them back to only hitting the center torso for balance purposes.

Uh, no? They're supposed to be roughly on par with SRMs of an equal tube volume. In other words, you're supposed to seriously consider if an SSRM2 or a SRM2 would be better. What we have right now is debating between the SSRM2 and the SRM6. Can you even imagine what would happen with clantech or even IS SSRM6s that only hit CT? Even with tweaking up the difficulty to use them, what could stand against those things?

#9 MasterBLB

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:07 AM

Stop whinning about ssrms,they after tweaks are fine as they are now.

#10 Peter Thorndyke IV

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:35 AM

Quote

100% kill rate is sadly unrealistic and abusive especially because it invalidates so many light mech variants. 100% hit rate is a mis-translation. In actuality the SSRM would never constantly hit with a full volley in accordance with the old battletech rules. When the actual cause that directed SSRMs to become this way is removed, so should their behavior revert back to when they were less harmful to the game.


From the Battletech Compendium,
afaik the official BT Rules

Streak SRM

Before the Streak can be fired, it must have a lock on its target . . .
If a lock is achived the Streak SRM's can be fired immediately, all SRMs from that Launcher automaticaly hit!

Here comes the part that made them nevertheless not that OP:

For each SRM the Hit location is determined seperately.

So much for BT rules,
the only tweak that is required, and as far as i could observe in game, allready is implemented, was the hit location diversity for the missiles.

Honestly, they work well currently as far as i could observe.

#11 Stingz

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:48 AM

Forcing Streaks to re-lock after every shot seems reasonable, fresh salvo of SSRMs means new locks.

#12 Theobald Hauser

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:16 AM

Why ? The Targa-7 is not launched with the missiles, he's still in your launcher and still weighting a half-ton per launcher.

I don't see any points in this thread. If lagshield is resolved, it's not making streaks any more powerful.
I would understand a (and strongly disagree to) "nerf lasers now" thread. Leave streaks alone.
Lights need to learn again to fear and flee from light hunters. It's already far easier to play light mechs.

#13 Stingz

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:20 AM

View PostAmarius, on 24 January 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Why ? The Targa-7 is not launched with the missiles, he's still in your launcher and still weighting a half-ton per launcher.

I don't see any points in this thread. If lagshield is resolved, it's not making streaks any more powerful.
I would understand a (and strongly disagree to) "nerf lasers now" thread. Leave streaks alone.
Lights need to learn again to fear and flee from light hunters. It's already far easier to play light mechs.


Clanners with Streaks, their Streak 4-6s weigh as much as standard Inner Sphere SRMs. No you won't get their tech for a long time, freebirth

#14 Theobald Hauser

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:41 AM

Still, nothing to do with lagshield.


And please don't make imbalance threads about things that are not yet in the game. One thing at a time.

Edited by Amarius, 24 January 2013 - 06:06 AM.


#15 MasterBLB

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:45 AM

Ammo per ton - 15.Thank you,that'd be all what is need to be said about balancing higher tier streaks.

#16 StalaggtIKE

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:46 AM

View PostManDaisy, on 23 January 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

Sadly I dont see a future for non ECM lights mechs if streaks continue with their 100% hit rate.
SSRM 6 is on its way and when one of unfair advantages of lights is fixed (the lag shield), the bandaid of SSRMs 100% hit rate should be removed. The reappearance of knockdown should also play a heavy role in rebalancing.

Jump is also inadversly affected by the streak 100% hit decision. Many feel the jump is too weak, this may have been because of the poptarting and 100% accuracy os SSRMS in combination with catapults. If 100% streak hitting is removed then jump can once again be more dynamic, giving heavier mechs back their jump potential and making lighter jumping mechs shine even more.

All in all I feel 100% streak accuracy is doing a disservice to every light mech in the game apart from the ECM variants.

Agreed. Also, stealth from ECM should be removed as well.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 24 January 2013 - 05:46 AM.


#17 Strum Wealh

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:50 AM

View PostPeter Thorndyke IV, on 24 January 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:


From the Battletech Compendium,
afaik the official BT Rules

Streak SRM

Before the Streak can be fired, it must have a lock on its target . . .
If a lock is achived the Streak SRM's can be fired immediately, all SRMs from that Launcher automaticaly hit!

Here comes the part that made them nevertheless not that OP:

For each SRM the Hit location is determined seperately.

So much for BT rules,
the only tweak that is required, and as far as i could observe in game, allready is implemented, was the hit location diversity for the missiles.

Honestly, they work well currently as far as i could observe.

Actually, the official BattleTech rules are (since 2006) composed of Total Warfare and its companion books (TechManual, Tactical Operations, and Strategic Operations). :)

However, Total Warfare (on page 138) says the same thing.

Quote

A player attempting to lock a Streak missile on target must make a standard to-hit roll during the Weapon Attack Phase as if he were firing a standard SRM. If successful, the player immediately fires his Streak SRM at the locked-on target. All Streak missiles automatically hit (no roll on the Cluster Hits Table is required), and the player rolls as normal to determine the hit locations. If the roll fails, the player does not achieve a lock and so does not fire the SRMs or build up any heat.
The player must roll for a targeting lock each turn, even if he achieved a lock in the previous turn. The player must make a separate to-hit roll for each individual Streak system being fired.


The entire point of the Streak system is ammo conservation - they allow themselves to fire when and only they are all solidly locked on and guaranteed to hit. As such, they only fire when all of the missiles will hit, and when they fire they will all hit.

That being said, they should still spread out when they do fire - a Streak SRM-2 should be liable to hit both arms (one missile per arm), or one arm and one leg, or both side-torsos, or both in the CT (or any other single location), or any other combination.
Paul Inouye, MWO's Lead Developer, has indicated that they are working on implementing this aspect.

Quote

On the SSRM direct front, another fix has gone in where the SSRMs will now use arm and leg joints as viable lock-on targets. This spreads damage out more. I'll be working with David B on testing to see if the current implementation of SSRMs along with the reduced cockpit shake and smoke reduction will be enough of a nerf to help counter the SSRM effectiveness without having to directly hit damage/cooldown/heat etc.


Additionally, firing the weapon should (per BattleTech rules) also break its lock, such that the weapon must go through the entire re-locking process for each and every salvo.

#18 Syllogy

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:58 AM

View PostStrum Wealh, on 24 January 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

Additionally, firing the weapon should (per BattleTech rules) also break its lock, such that the weapon must go through the entire re-locking process for each and every salvo.


When are you people going to learn that BattleTech is a Board Game, and not a Video Game?

#19 Bobzilla

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:16 AM

I don't think they should hit 100% of the time. Tweek with their speed and manuverability so they are really hard to dodge. It should at least be more difficult to gain a lock if they do hit 100% of the time. Every other weapon takes skill, why not the ssrm? People complained about LRMs being to easy to use, which they are, but it takes skill to use them effictively.
I really don't care about the damage they do or the place they hit, as long as it isn't a sure hit that is super easy to fire.

#20 Critical Fumble

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:18 AM

View PostSyllogy, on 24 January 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:


When are you people going to learn that BattleTech is a Board Game, and not a Video Game?

When are you people going to learn that they carbon copied the values from BattleTech, but broke certain things in transiting it across? Things that were, you know, important to the balance of those values.

Which leads to problems like this: http://mwomercs.com/...c/77679-woo-ha/





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