80 replies to this topic

[Droz]

when will this be fixed? There is no need to be running around and suddenly get leg damage from a small bump. ridiculous.

[JSparrowist]

I totally agree.

Having your leg break from stepping off of a curb is lame.

[Sabazial]

*Pro tip* Slow down a little when dropping off small ledges and you'll find don't take leg damage as often

[JSparrowist]

Belphegore, on 24 January 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

*Pro tip* Slow down a little when dropping off small ledges and you'll find don't take leg damage as often

Nah, I don't think that's necessary.. My mech can take multiple laser blasts to the legs and still run, are you seriously telling me that stubbing my mechs toe on a 2' high rock is going to cause damage like a medium lazzzzzoooorrr blast?

[Bishop Steiner]

Hmmm you must have been typing this while I was typing mine....

[Dukarriope]

Lateral (X/Z axis) velocity still appears to be taken into account by the falling damage calculation, but I noticed it actually seems to have been reduced this patch. I'm still getting leg damage from cresting things at 150km/h but not as easily at 120km/h for instance.

[Psiclone]

WOOO!!!! Running at 148km/h over rubble, cliffs and general uneven terrain! C'mon legs! Handle it!

The damage you are taking is minimal. If it's that big of a deal learn to pilot your mech better.

[Voidsinger]

It's all cocked up still.

The fact any heavy/assault can do 10kph vertical drops without damage, and if a light tries it takes damage to both legs shows it's completely stuffed.

The force on the legs is much higher in larger mechs' legs and more concentrated.

Once again, the bigger is better except in brain size crowd wins out.

[Dukarriope]

Voidsinger, on 24 January 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

The force on the legs is much higher in larger mechs' legs and more concentrated.

Bear in mind that while large and heavy 'mechs do have higher mass (and thus exert more force when they land that must be soaked up by their legs), they also have larger feet than most of the small 'mechs (often much larger even though they are not necessarily twice as heavy) which means a larger contact area, thus a larger area that the force is distributed to. This reduces the overall pressure, which is force divided by area.


Of course the real problem is that fall-damage right now takes into account lateral velocity which is something I believe it should not.

Edited by Dukarriope, 24 January 2013 - 06:09 PM.

[Jetfire]

JSparrowist, on 24 January 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

Nah, I don't think that's necessary.. My mech can take multiple laser blasts to the legs and still run, are you seriously telling me that stubbing my mechs toe on a 2' high rock is going to cause damage like a medium lazzzzzoooorrr blast?

Lol, man I hate stubbing my toe. If I had 200 armor value I am pretty sure I have done 1 dmg in pain by a toe stubbing more than once.

[Team Leader]

Jetfire, on 24 January 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

Lol, man I hate stubbing my toe. If I had 200 armor value I am pretty sure I have done 1 dmg in pain by a toe stubbing more than once.

When a light only has 34 armor on each leg and you lose 1 every 20 feet... That's a problem.

[GldnSabre]

Stop whining you have lag shield!!!


TROLOLOL

[Bishop Steiner]

Psiclone, on 24 January 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

WOOO!!!! Running at 148km/h over rubble, cliffs and general uneven terrain! C'mon legs! Handle it!

The damage you are taking is minimal. If it's that big of a deal learn to pilot your mech better.

whoohoo.. running 70 kph down the talus slope on Forest Valley.... yellow legs. Doing similar over the ROLLING hills of Frozen.

Vs 20 meter Drop in Atlas (probably closer to 40, since the Atlas is near 20 meters itself) and ZERO impact damage. Also keep in mind, mechs like Spiders which are DESIGNED to jump would have reinforced legs and shock absorbers, which should mitigate the damage. And a 2 meter drop should NOT damage my legs. Period.

I am all for leg damage for doing 120+ through harsh terrain, but when you brush a welcome mat and it causes damage, it is a little silly.

[Voidsinger]

Dukarriope, on 24 January 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

Bear in mind that while large and heavy 'mechs do have higher mass (and thus exert more force when they land that must be soaked up by their legs), they also have larger feet than most of the small 'mechs (often much larger even though they are not necessarily twice as heavy) which means a larger contact area, thus a larger area that the force is distributed to. This reduces the overall pressure, which is force divided by area.


Of course the real problem is that fall-damage right now takes into account lateral velocity which is something I believe it should not.

Yes, the cube square principles.

Still, the larger mech would need feet with a surface area of {square root of mech mass multiplier} times proportionally larger than the smaller mech to just equalize out the force of the impact.

Then there is internal structure. This is a pure linear scale. Not all mechs have the larger feet you mentioned, and chicken legs would be some of the worst. Actuators on larger mechs would need to be larger for the impacts to be absorbed, although the higher velocity of smaller mechs increases their force of impact.

There is no account taken for suspension factors, which should be naturally higher in lighter mechs (Given engine size and rating limits).

Of course, nothing matches the fact that armless mechs do gymnastic flips to right themselves faster than mechs with hands.

That's why PGI states that some things are done in the interests of player enjoyment. It's not fair, it's not right, but while the bigger is better mindset rules, it will apply to increase sales.

[Dukarriope]

Last I looked it seemed like a Catapult's foot is twice the size of a Spider's.

I'd also be fairly certain that larger mechs have more internal (and stronger) structure to disperse the force through, but to be clear, I want the fall damage to be reduced too.

[MuonNeutrino]

Dukarriope, on 24 January 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

Bear in mind that while large and heavy 'mechs do have higher mass (and thus exert more force when they land that must be soaked up by their legs), they also have larger feet than most of the small 'mechs (often much larger even though they are not necessarily twice as heavy) which means a larger contact area, thus a larger area that the force is distributed to. This reduces the overall pressure, which is force divided by area.

This is true. However, when it comes to damaging the legs, it's not just the pressure on the bottom of the feet that matters. The force required to decelerate a falling mech to a stop acts not only on the feet, but propagates up from them throughout the load-bearing structure of the mech as a whole. Thus, you have to keep in mind that said force, while resulting in a relatively small pressure when spread out over the area of the foot, yields a *much* higher pressure when it's concentrated down over the cross-sectional area of, say, the ankle bone of the mech's skeleton. That's why people break their ankles falling too far, not the bottoms of their feet.

You also have to keep in mind the effects of the square-cube relation between area and volume (which is related, more or less, to mass). A mech with twice the overall mass is not twice as tall, nor is it twice as wide, but its internal structure 'bones' would need to be twice as thick to provide the same ability to support its weight. Realistically, a mech's internal structure's weight should *not* increase linearly with the mech's overall mass as it does in this game - it should consume a larger proportion of the overall payload for heavier mechs. Since it doesn't, though, heavier mechs should actually have *less* strength to resist falling damage than lighter ones.

EDIT: Darnit, ninja'd.

Edited by MuonNeutrino, 24 January 2013 - 06:36 PM.

[Voidsinger]

Dukarriope, on 24 January 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

Last I looked it seemed like a Catapult's foot is twice the size of a Spider's.

I'd also be fairly certain that larger mechs have more internal (and stronger) structure to disperse the force through, but to be clear, I want the fall damage to be reduced too.

Yes, but the linear scaling of internal structure is where the fact Battletech used it means that smaller mechs have stronger internal structures.

Remember, Cube Square.

If mass of mech is multiplied by 8 (used for a reason), then assuming proportionality is kept, then:

Height of the mech is doubled.
Surface area of the mech is 4 times (means armour must be 4 times the mass just to be the same thickness).
Volume is 8 times.

Interestingly:

Surface area of internal Structure is 4 times
Force needed to be borne by any component is 8 times.

This assumes linear strength increases as surface area increases. This doesn't happen with machines, or in biology (where if mass is cubed, then skeletal mass is to the 4th in terrestrial mammals).

[Dukarriope]

Science, am I right?

[Team Leader]

Dukarriope, on 24 January 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

Science, am I right?

You are right!

[Kell Commander]

While it is annoying how easy my Cicada takes leg damage (I know it is more resistant than all the lights but not the point) I thank god there are not randomly placed banana peels.