89 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Antony Weiner, on 24 January 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

How do you counter a 2 x ER PPC and 4 x SRM 6 Stalker boat? What is a counter to it?

Rhetorical questions. There are no counters to this superior mech; you can only focus your fires on it.

A Gauss, ER Large Laser, 3 SRM 6 Atlas! I have more armor, And throw more damage at range as your build. Or a 4 LRM 15 Stalker would make a good match for your offering.

[Mike Silva]

GalaxyBluestar, on 24 January 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

actually 4x6srm is boating but really assaults fall into the catogory of focus fire or bust, they are the heavist armoured tanks and deserve that 2 on 1 respect. 2 erppcs can easily be outgunned at longer ranges with lrms or more lrg laser fire. 2 ppcs are tough but he won't be using them more often as a cataphract can spam ultra 5's or a k2 with extra manourverability.

I guess if the definition has changed from LAN parties when people would load up Vultures with a bunch of LRM-15s and nothing else and just melt people from across the map... the 'mech described has 14 tons of energy weapons and 12 tons of missile weapons (not including ammo, of course). For me, that's not a boat, it's just a sleek weapon selection that can cause pain at any engagement range.

[Ralgas]

It all comes down to loadout and map, in frozen/river city these builds are crazy good becase they have the cover to get close, in forrest/caustic they have to be a pretty decent pilot.

I rip up as many cats as kill me with the twin gauss illya, comes down to pilot skills and who gets spotting/terrain advantage

[Antony Weiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 January 2013 - 08:17 PM, said:

A Gauss, ER Large Laser, 3 SRM 6 Atlas! I have more armor, And throw more damage at range as your build. Or a 4 LRM 15 Stalker would make a good match for your offering.

On current maps, I doubt it. That Gauss blows up too quickly. Depends on the situation, of course.

LRM boats are not a counter to anything.

Ralgas, on 24 January 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

It all comes down to loadout and map, in frozen/river city these builds are crazy good becase they have the cover to get close, in forrest/caustic they have to be a pretty decent pilot.

I rip up as many cats as kill me with the twin gauss illya, comes down to pilot skills and who gets spotting/terrain advantage

So you boat gauss and are successful against other boats?

[Bhael Fire]

Dear PGI,

Get rid of all the mechs.

Thanks,

- Babyfarts McGeezaks

[IceCase88]

AC20pults, SRM6pults, and Streakpults are n00b machines. People who lack basic skill to play the game so they must resort goofy unbalanced builds. Call them what they are... n00bs... and move along. They lack general skill and talent so they must resort to this kind of lameness. They will cower around the ECM mechs until they are close to the enemy. Otherwise they would be chewed up by the balanced mechs. Gausspults and PPCpults at least require a bit of skill to use even though they are unbalanced and easy to kill up close. Also, they need to fix the loading ammo into the legs of mechs. Looking at each mech I wonder how the ammo is able to move through the legs, and hip joints, to make its way to weapons in the arms and torsos. Not possible. Also, ammo should not be more than one space away from the weapon it is rearming (i.e. missile hardpoint in right arm and ammo must be in right arm or right torso).

Edited by IceCase88, 24 January 2013 - 08:30 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

Mmmmm... Spam SRMs.

The cornerstone of nutritious camp cooking!

[Joseph Mallan]

Antony Weiner, on 24 January 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

On current maps, I doubt it. That Gauss blows up too quickly. Depends on the situation, of course.

LRM boats are not a counter to anything.



So you boat gauss and are successful against other boats?

We'd just have to see I guess Antony. And yes, the situation would be important.

You haven't been paying attention to the rise of LRMs lately have you . Some teams are wielding them very effectively. I am quite impressed by the coordination I have seen with them. Don't count them out just yet!

[Mazzyplz]

Quote

How do you counter a 2 x ER PPC and 4 x SRM 6 Stalker boat?

with a 2x ER PPC and 4x SRM6 AWESOME 8R

[Antony Weiner]

IceCase88, on 24 January 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

Gausspults . . . require . . . skill to use

Tell me more about skill and not being afflicted by Parkinson's disease.

[Crimson Angel]

The problem with MWO at the minute is that unless you boat/stack you are in for a difficult time. For example, I if was take out my cannon centurion with lrms, ac10 and med lasers, I can't use the lrm's due to ecm and the ac10/med lasers can't pump put enough damage quickly enough for me to take out the centurion with 3 x srms attacking me.

Yes, superior pilot skills and team work helps but as it stands in order to stand a chance, MWO in its current build is more or less forcing you to boat/stack, IMHO.

Edited by Crimson Angel, 24 January 2013 - 08:36 PM.

[Antony Weiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 January 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

You haven't been paying attention to the rise of LRMs lately have you .

Are you psychic? You know things that should be far beyond your understanding.

LRM boats do not counter anything. They simply kill things from afar. It is like saying that an SRM6 boat is a counter to something. It's not, its cheese. We are talking about builds, not some particular detailed situations that you imagine in your head without sharing with anyone.

Considering current maps, I am absolutely confident I will be able to close in on any LRM boat from 1000m without taking significant damage. If not (on caustic), can always take pop shots at the boat with er ppcs.

Edited by Antony Weiner, 24 January 2013 - 08:34 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Mike Silva, on 24 January 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

I guess if the definition has changed from LAN parties when people would load up Vultures with a bunch of LRM-15s and nothing else and just melt people from across the map... the 'mech described has 14 tons of energy weapons and 12 tons of missile weapons (not including ammo, of course). For me, that's not a boat, it's just a sleek weapon selection that can cause pain at any engagement range.

fair point maybe we should complain about stacking then rather than boating?

[Joseph Mallan]

IceCase88, on 24 January 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

1)AC20pults, 2)SRM6pults, and 2)Streakpults are n00b machines. People who lack basic skill to play the game so they must resort goofy unbalanced builds. Call them what they are... n00bs... and move along. They lack general skill and talent so they must resort to this kind of lameness. They will cower around the ECM mechs until they are close to the enemy. Otherwise they would be chewed up by the balanced mechs. Gausspults and PPCpults at least require a bit of skill to use even though they are unbalanced and easy to kill up close.

1) Hunchback IIC
2) Timberwolf C

Your words ring hollow as these are both Builds the Clans will be bring to the battlefield. Not to mention the Nova Prime, Kit Fox A(30 tons and a Gauss)... Goofy Unbalanced builds like the Hunchback-P or the Awesome (IF PPCs were truly dangerous as they were on TT).

[Antony Weiner]

IceCase88, on 24 January 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

AC20pults, SRM6pults, and Streakpults are n00b machines. People who lack basic skill to play the game so they must resort goofy unbalanced builds. Call them what they are... n00bs... and move along. They lack general skill and talent so they must resort to this kind of lameness. They will cower around the ECM mechs until they are close to the enemy. Otherwise they would be chewed up by the balanced mechs. Gausspults and PPCpults at least require a bit of skill to use even though they are unbalanced and easy to kill up close. Also, they need to fix the loading ammo into the legs of mechs. Looking at each mech I wonder how the ammo is able to move through the legs, and hip joints, to make its way to weapons in the arms and torsos. Not possible. Also, ammo should not be more than one space away from the weapon it is rearming (i.e. missile hardpoint in right arm and ammo must be in right arm or right torso).

Ammo in the legs is actually in the lore; however, it has to be an upgrade that takes up slots (7 slots?).

On the side note, the real issue are the maps. Id est, short-range mobile mechs are capable of choosing their engagements and long-range mobile mechs are not capable of choosing their engagements.

Edited by Antony Weiner, 24 January 2013 - 08:42 PM.

[Deamhan]

IMO the missiles are the same while it is the delivery system that is different. PGI needs to agree on how much damage a single missile does and use it across the board. They already have a set damage for projectiles. One point per while the number indicates the number of projectiles sent down range per shot. Thus the number will correspond to the damage it does.

eg AC 20. Now I don't use ballistics so pardon me if I'm mistaken but I'm under the impression that an AC 20 uses up 20 rounds of ammo per shot fired. Each does 1 point per for a total of 20.

However ballistic weapons don't depend on lock, reach out pretty far, have no minimum range etc. Missiles have ECM, AMS and in the case of streak, requires lock. SRM doesn't but shoots like a ballistic and has a range of just 270 without being able to extend twice or three times that distance like lasers and ballistics.

Still since the number is the number of missiles fired per salvo, you have to multiply it by the damage the missile does which is different from weapon type to weapon type. They need to balance it out so that missiles simply do a set damage and let the weapon dmg come from missiles launched per salvo. Make the difference between them be things like number of missiles per salvo, if it uses a lock, if it needs a lock to fire, range, crit slots, tonnage, etc.

That's not saying that there shouldn't be separate missile types. The missiles can be different while containing the same payload.

Edited by Deamhan, 24 January 2013 - 08:45 PM.

[Mathmatics]

Deamhan, on 24 January 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

IMO the missiles are the same while it is the delivery system that is different. PGI needs to agree on how much damage a single missile does and use it across the board. They already have a set damage for projectiles. One point per while the number indicates the number of projectiles sent down range per shot. Thus the number will correspond to the damage it does.

eg AC 20. Now I don't use ballistics so pardon me if I'm mistaken but I'm under the impression that an AC 20 uses up 20 rounds of ammo per shot fired. Each does 1 point per for a total of 20.

However ballistic weapons don't depend on lock, reach out pretty far, have no minimum range etc. Missiles have ECM, AMS and in the case of streak, requires lock. SRM doesn't but shoots like a ballistic and has a range of just 270 without being able to extend twice or three times that distance like lasers and ballistics.

Still since the number is the number of missiles fired per salvo, you have to multiply it by the damage the missile does which is different from weapon type to weapon type. They need to balance it out so that missiles simply do a set damage and let the weapon dmg come from missiles launched per salvo. Make the difference between them be things like number of missiles per salvo, if it uses a lock, if it needs a lock to fire, range, crit slots, tonnage, etc.

That's not saying that there should be separate missile types. The missiles can be different while containing the same payload.

Do you really think an ac/20 uses 20 rounds per shot? If that was not a typo: It uses 1 round per shot @20dmg. As for putting ammo in the legs. This has always been a thing but it was not as big of a deal in TT (post 3050) because DHS could go in the legs. Since DHS take 3 crits here, well what else are we supposed to put there? Besides like many people have said its a nice meta balance. Give the lights somthing fun to shoot at for pretty ammo explotions.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Solis Obscuri, on 24 January 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

Mmmmm... Spam SRMs.

The cornerstone of nutritious camp cooking!

[Solis Obscuri]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 January 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:

1) Hunchback IIC
2) Timberwolf C

Your words ring hollow as these are both Builds the Clans will be bring to the battlefield. Not to mention the Nova Prime, Kit Fox A(30 tons and a Gauss)... Goofy Unbalanced builds like the Hunchback-P or the Awesome (IF PPCs were truly dangerous as they were on TT).

No love for the King Crab?

[GalaxyBluestar]

what will people do when they face warhawks/masakari's, nova/blackhawks, or annihilators?