22 replies to this topic

[Elkarlo]

First of all, i didn't want go Forum about that and i went the Support way and
there it was suggested to go open in the Forum. When the Dev's should recognize it.

The Flame got as standard a LRM5 Missle Port, but when i made up my mind buying one i saw several Flames using their SRM6 as a oneshot Weapon.

With the last Patch on 23rd January it is now corrected and the a SRM6 is now a two Wave launcher, splittet in 4/2 Missle Waves.
It is far inferior to the 6 Missle Launch and somehow a hidden Nerf on a 4500 MC Dragon, because of the Brawler Setup mostly used on him, a two Shot SRM Launcher which is fired together with the Ballistic slot will only hit on the first wave.

so in the long run i will reduce the Launcher size to a SRM4. Which cost me some Punch, especially in Alpha Bursting play. I already saw several Flames with reduced Launcher Size.

The Devs said that is no real reduction in useability that the SRM6 fires in two waves now, but it is imo and i feel a little deceived about that. I would have to expose my Mech longer to have all Missles hit the target, which is quite deadly for me.

What do you think is a reduction of Launcher Tube Slots a reduction in Performance on a SRM Launcher? The Dev's say No, i say it is. Please comments.

( Again the SRM6 was before the Patch a single SRM6 shot, after the Patch it is a SRM4 then SRM2 shot )

[Phlyk]

I can't comment on the flame specifically, but it is a lot harder to aim a two (or more) wave SRM launcher, especially on the move. IT provides less immediate volley damage and requires tracking the target for longer.

In my opinion, it is definitely a bit of a downgrade. I guess you just have an SRM4 and an extra ton to play with now.

[Elkarlo]

Tried it today, i play on Burst damage, this means going in with 3-4 Alpha going out cooling.
It is nice to have an extra Heatsink on caustic, but the 5 Damage Points per volley are realy be missing, especially when you see a Zombi Cent killing you with a lucky hit from his 3 Streak launchers...
He was deep red CT and the 5 more damage per Volley are realy missed in this situation. ( hit him 4 times with the SRM4)

The non Ballistic High Speed Flames with bigger Engine will realy miss the SRM6, because they have the SRM as the only big Punch weapons and the 4 M-Lasers as burning down Weapon. So guess i am lucky as i use a Ballistic Flame.

Its a big different if you have 45 Alpha or 40 Alpha. Especially when you depend on putting out 4 Alpha in a row without overheating ( the 15th DHS only gives me a slight time advantage on #5 of 2 secs in real Combat where i have to aim i can get it out in about the same time)

Edited by Elkarlo, 25 January 2013 - 12:34 AM.

[Fooooo]

I think its inline with the other dragon variants is it not ? & the model.

I think the 5N fires 1 volley, or used to anyway.......haven't used the 5n for a long time.


That said I don't use the missile slot on the Flame anyway so its nothing drastic for me, however I can see how it would effect some.

[Elkarlo]

Standard Dragons got a 10 Tube Launcher.
Fang got a 6 Tube Launcher
Flame got a 5 Tube Launcher, but till 23rd January was able to fire a SRM6 in a single Volley like the Fang.

I watched Flame Pilots using their SRM6 firing it in a single Volley tested the config i wanted to use on the DRG-1C and it is realy great, then i bought mayself the Hero Mech..

No i feel deceived because it is patched and downgraded to a srm4/2 making the second shot nearly miss everytime, so running a SRM4 is better. (Less Ammo one Heatsink more) but still 10% Punch is missing.

[John MatriX82]

Nice that I didn't bought Flame yet, if so probably I won't.

Game files say its a 5 tube, so you should have 1x srm5 shot and a spare single srm from that. Imho it's a better addiction whenever you have a static and big target (srm4+srm2 will have a much tighter spread), but it's a downside whenever you have a single "window" to shoot once all the launcher at point blank.

Not good for a premium mech at all.

[Elkarlo]

The Problem is: with a Dragon you have to move, especially with the new Netcode,
you are a simply Dead in a bright red Dragon when you stand still.
So you have to keep up good passing speed and traversal speeds, to avoid fire.
So you have only a tight Window to hit. So only in Backstabbing Actions the SRM6 4/2 would be usefull, in normal combat it isn't. Switched tactics Flame works for me but i miss somehow my Highspeed big Punch.
Now it is realy different to the DRG-1C. Which is now the best of all Dragon Chassis.
(before the Flame was the best)
How about giving him an Energypoint at the Chin? I have one ton to spare for a Flamer now, then it would realy be a "Flame"

Edited by Elkarlo, 25 January 2013 - 03:09 AM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Looks more like a fix to me. If you only had 5 holes, it shouldn't have been able to 1 volley 6 missiles in the first place. Although you could ask them to just graphically add another hole. But that solution would take longer. They aren't miracle workers. You'll just have to live with it being made for an LRM 5, Streaks, or SRM 2/4. I had a similar issue with my 4SP, and my solution was to buy a 4J for the LRMs.

[Stingz]

Niko Snow, on 25 January 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Our QA team has confirmed that the effect on gameplay is essentially negligible, and that it also looks better than missiles appearing out phantom pods.

Have you fixed the Cataphract-2X spitting out x2 SRM-6/SRM-4 in 1 volley?

Edited by Stingz, 25 January 2013 - 08:43 AM.

[Ragor]

Niko Snow, on 25 January 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Our QA team has confirmed that the effect on gameplay is essentially negligible, and that it also looks better than missiles appearing out phantom pods.

Firing missiles in waves definately has a drawback: DPS.

The cooldown cycle of a launcher starts when the last missile left the launcher.
When fired in waves (for example 3 waves of 5 missiles when using an LRM15 with a 5 tube launcher model) the whole salvo might take a whole second - which is added to the overall refire rate.

Simple test:
Put a LRM20 into the left arm of a Raven (1 tube only).
Check when the reloading cycle starts.
Jup, takes some time...

Edited by Ragor, 25 January 2013 - 08:57 AM.

[Elkarlo]

Niko Snow, on 25 January 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Our QA team has confirmed that the effect on gameplay is essentially negligible, and that it also looks better than missiles appearing out phantom pods.

As several people said, it is most certain a 5 point damage loss in a Real Combat situation,
forget the Looks give me the Power !

We drive this Baby's hot and fast, so the second will miss, especially at the current good sniper position you have a very tight Window to launch your weapons in one burst. When you are not in cover in time your Shoulders or Torso will get pounded by the Gauss and AC/20 Snipers out there. You can't simply afford it to wait for the second wave to start.

This is most certain Looks over Substance. And a Hidden Nerf.

[Sylow]

Thanks for the warning. I lately considered getting the flame as my fourth Dragon, as the higher mounted ballistic hardpoint would be a small but sometimes significant improvement of my ACs accuracy and flexibility. But staggered SRMs would be a steep price for that. (Would my SRM6 be streak, i wouldn't mind, but that kind of launcher is still a looong time off. For unguided SRMs, i consider it no real option. )

[Budor]

Bad decision. Im sad.

[Yurei Yojimbo]

I just bought Flame after the patch and would never have even noticed the delay if it had not been posted here. I routinely get all the SRMs to hit even while moving at 97kph w/360 XL. Seems negligible to me.

[Selfish]

I've had a flame since they were released. They were ALWAYS two salvo launchers (5 slot). Your perceptions are misled, and there was no stealth nerf/change.

[0Life]

If your stock tubes is five, and you are putting in a six tube then it makes sense.
Now, I could be wrong here, as I have never been a TT player, but have played some of the computer and console versions of BT/MW. When I dropped a LRM 20 in to replace an LRM 10, I was not firing two blocks of 10. I was firing 20 at once. Why? Because missile tubes are not static. One would not use a larger barrel on a rifle that fires a larger caliber (say a .45 ACP) to fire a small caliber (say a .22 LR). Now, if your mech chassis simply does not have a large enough area to fit what you want to put in, (say a LRM 20 rack into the side torso of a Centurion, talking about the physical size and dimensions not the critical space) without heavy modification then I could understand. But there are many instances of cannon mechs switching out weapon A for weapon B and they differ greatly in size/shape... and they look visually different.

Would changing the visual appearance of models to reflect different weapons be possibly very difficult with many inherent problems? Yeah, most likely, so I can understand not doing that. Yet, if there is the room for it, and a team of engineers can make it work, why not?

"Ya want me ta what? Cut off some of that armor slab there to fit in anuther missile tube fer ya? Well... it'll cost ya, but my boys can do it, you know, after they finish tha oil change on that there Jenner." This is the kind of thing I expect the mechanics (who are likely more mercenary than my Pilot) would respond if I want to put a SRM6 in to replace a LRM5. If the mech does not already have the tubes for it, why not apply an extra cost and maybe even an armor reduction to add another tube?

[Narcissistic Martyr]

I bought one on day one and it's always been that way. I recommend an SRM4+artemis or dropping the SRMs altogether as the half second delay reduces the DPS of the SRM6 enough that the extra ton isn't worth it compared to artemis or an extra heatsink or more ammo.

[Volume]

Flame is still better than Fang and other Dragon chassis.

That said it's still bad compared to other Heavies and such.

Truth is this is a fairly significant change, and I don't know how a QA team can say the effect on gameplay is negligible. The longer you need to expose yourself to fire, the more vulnerable you are. Even if it's 0.25 seconds, that could be the .25 seconds that someone on the other team needs to line up their Gauss/PPC/AC10 shot on you.

If anything I wish the launch point was higher up.

[Lanessar]

Now, I haven't played since I used my Flame (when it was released), but it always fired two waves. I upgraded to an SRM6 right out of the gate and noticed this. So, it didn't change on Jan 23rd.

[Selfish]

Volume, on 30 January 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

Flame is still better than Fang and other Dragon chassis.

That said it's still bad compared to other Heavies and such.

Truth is this is a fairly significant change, and I don't know how a QA team can say the effect on gameplay is negligible. The longer you need to expose yourself to fire, the more vulnerable you are. Even if it's 0.25 seconds, that could be the .25 seconds that someone on the other team needs to line up their Gauss/PPC/AC10 shot on you.

If anything I wish the launch point was higher up.

There was never a change. The Flame has always been a 5 tube launcher.