53 replies to this topic

[0X2A]

I have been playing MWO for about a week now, and only have one gripe. Premades. I'm not going to sit here to whine like some children "OMFG THIS GAME SUXXX I'M QUITTING HURR DURR". I get into about 50% "pure" pug matches (Long games close scores and immensely fun for both teams), and the rest are premade. Trust me it's not a "I think these are premades" it's more of a "I know the other team is a premade (enemies are often rude/condesending in ingame chat and refer to themselves as 'us')" (Ex. 8 Mechs beastmode and wipe out all 7 teammates and I in under 5 minutes) I am a good sport and accept that there are people out there who enjoy playing with friends, and are FAR better than I am.

TL;DR: Are the Devs working on something to help "curb" premades? Sort of like a server browser (Clans V Clans / Heavier role play)


-Ox2A

[M3atloaf]

Without getting too in depth, yes, they are working on it. The final phase of the matchmaking is due next month which will incorporate an ELO based system to match players of similar skill. This should keep you from getting stuck with steamroll team as the overall team rating for each other should be similar but it will not remove the ability to be matched with teams that are up to a 4man premade. 8mans have already been removed and have their own separate queue.

[0X2A]

Thank you for the quick and informative reply, not to mention not flaming me for bringing up premades.

[Serapth]

Actually, no, they aren't.


They are working on ELO, which is a match making service. But at the end of the day, they just treat a premade using an average score calculated from the sum of its member. There is no premade balancing beyond that, and in fact, its going to get a bit worse with 12v12 from what I understand.

I've heard there should be a post on the command couch soon that will explain plans in more details soon.


ELO is not going to balance premades, except it will take some of the bite off, in that a newbie will only get sent against newbie premades.


Ironically, people using easy mode now... er, I mean, premade, are going to get spanked when they do PUG, because their rating is going to be artifically high. So in a way, things are going to get better for expert PUGs and premade players are going to get screwed.

This is going to be fun.

[Vlad Ward]

Nobody's stats will be artificially raised or lowered. They've already said that they plan on resetting our K/D/A stats when they launch ELO.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 25 January 2013 - 03:42 PM.

[Serapth]

Vlad Ward, on 25 January 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

Nobody's stats will be artificially raised or lowered. They've already said that they plan on resetting our K/D/A stats when they launch ELO.

Yes, but if you premade all the time, your stats will be inflated beyond your actual skill. So when you dont have the crutch of a group, you are going to play with people substantially more talented than you. ( Other of course that is, than the most talented member of the premade )

[Vlad Ward]

I think you're highly overestimating the amount of use voice comms get in most <=4-man premades.

Obliterating Pugs is boring and hardly worth the time and energy involved in devising battleplans and calling focus targets. Putting 2-4 good players on the same side of a match is already more than sufficient to wade into the other team's random 8 and kill everyone without losing a limb in the vast majority of games.

[KroWn]

Serapth, on 25 January 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

Ironically, people using easy mode now... er, I mean, premade, are going to get spanked when they do PUG, because their rating is going to be artifically high. So in a way, things are going to get better for expert PUGs and premade players are going to get screwed.

This is going to be fun.

Except when your expert pug runs into an expert solo-running premade player.
Good luck then.

[Greyfyl]

Vlad Ward, on 25 January 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

I think you're highly overestimating the amount of use voice comms get in most <=4-man premades.

Obliterating Pugs is boring and hardly worth the time and energy involved in devising battleplans and calling focus targets. Putting 2-4 good players on the same side of a match is already more than sufficient to wade into the other team's random 8 and kill everyone without losing a limb in the vast majority of games.

It sounds like it's not much fun for you...why do you continue to do it then instead of challenging yourselves with 8-mans?

This should be good.

[Vlad Ward]

Greyfyl, on 25 January 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

It sounds like it's not much fun for you...why do you continue to do it then instead of challenging yourselves with 8-mans?

This should be good.

Only time you'll find me in a 2-4 man is when we have 7 or less people on Teamspeak.

Obliterating PUGs with hardcore strategies and focus targets isn't fun. Going in while drinking and messing around on voice with absolutely no battle plan or focus targets is fun, and gives people a fighting chance.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 25 January 2013 - 04:22 PM.

[Serapth]

KroWn, on 25 January 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Except when your expert pug runs into an expert solo-running premade player.
Good luck then.

Oh yeah, that will certainly happen, and the premade advantage will certainly be a factor.

Right now though, expert pugs are running with trial mech lancemates and facing expert premades and worse, cheese *** sync drops, so its not like its going to be any worse for pugs, is it? Pretty much, right now is about as bad as it can get for pugs, short of bringing 8mans back.

[Greyfyl]

Vlad Ward, on 25 January 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Only time you'll find me in a 2-4 man is when we have 7 or less people on Teamspeak.

Obliterating PUGs isn't fun. Going in while drinking and messing around on voice with absolutely no battle plan or focus targets is fun, and gives people a fighting chance.

Why wouldn't you just get 1 person that you know from the ts lobby?

And you've also admitted just how ridiculous the advantage is for the above average skill level players (not that you were ever one to say it wasn't a huge advantage). Wouldn't it be better for you and your buddies if the other team always had a 4 man on it as well? Sure, it wouldn't gaurantee that the other premade is on your level, but it would almost certainly produce on average much better matches don't you think?

[Vlad Ward]

Serapth, on 25 January 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Oh yeah, that will certainly happen, and the premade advantage will certainly be a factor.

Right now though, expert pugs are running with trial mech lancemates and facing expert premades and worse, cheese *** sync drops, so its not like its going to be any worse for pugs, is it? Pretty much, right now is about as bad as it can get for pugs, short of bringing 8mans back.

Stop blaming your teammates for everything. That's not very sportsmanlike, and frankly I find it downright rude.

The odds of you ending up on the opposing end of a premade are identical to the odds of you ending up on the same team as one.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 25 January 2013 - 04:26 PM.

[Greyfyl]

Serapth, on 25 January 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Oh yeah, that will certainly happen, and the premade advantage will certainly be a factor.

Right now though, expert pugs are running with trial mech lancemates and facing expert premades and worse, cheese *** sync drops, so its not like its going to be any worse for pugs, is it? Pretty much, right now is about as bad as it can get for pugs, short of bringing 8mans back.

I would agree that one good player on the team opposing a premade really has no chance unless he has at least 3-4 decent teammates AND the premade is very average or drunk and not trying.

Vlad Ward, on 25 January 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Stop blaming your teammates for everything. That's not very sportsmanlike, and frankly I find it downright rude.

The odds of you ending up on the opposing end of a premade are identical to the odds of you ending up on the same team as one.

Are you drunk now? Is it as rude as going into games with a huge advantage and roflstomping pugs instead of playing even 8mans?

And you might want to check your math.

[Serapth]

Vlad Ward, on 25 January 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Stop blaming your teammates for everything. That's not very sportsmanlike, and frankly I find it downright rude.

The odds of you ending up on the opposing end of a premade are identical to the odds of you ending up on the same team as one.

Wow, deflection of the highest form.

Stop defending your lame advantage and admit that premades give a massive advantage.

[Vlad Ward]

Greyfyl, on 25 January 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

Why wouldn't you just get 1 person that you know from the ts lobby?

And you've also admitted just how ridiculous the advantage is for the above average skill level players (not that you were ever one to say it wasn't a huge advantage). Wouldn't it be better for you and your buddies if the other team always had a 4 man on it as well? Sure, it wouldn't gaurantee that the other premade is on your level, but it would almost certainly produce on average much better matches don't you think?

I don't do Comstar premades. I run with a Corps, and adding new people from Comstar is hardly any better than letting the matchmaker pick a random for us - with the caveat that said random person from Comstar is going to suddenly have to learn to work with us against a homogeneous and organized 8-man team.

Also, yes, I will never try and claim that being good at the game gives you a significant advantage over players who are not so good at the game. Doing so would be ... well, it would be downright silly.

[Greyfyl]

Serapth, on 25 January 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Wow, deflection of the highest form.

Stop defending your lame advantage and admit that premades give a massive advantage.

He already admitted it by stating they don't even have to try. They get drunk and probably just make burping and farting noises into the mikes during the match, you know, really cool stuff.

[Greyfyl]

Vlad Ward, on 25 January 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

Also, yes, I will never try and claim that being good at the game gives you a significant advantage over players who are not so good at the game. Doing so would be ... well, it would be downright silly.

Good job of deflection again and completely ignoring the question. You are purposely avoiding situations where you would be in an even playing field or slight disadvantage and instead stay where you get the greatest chance to win. Of course you do. Why wouldn't you as long as the matchmaker lets you?

Why would you continually play against players so beneath your awesomeness? I'm sure they wouldn't mind your absence in the least.

Vlad Ward, on 25 January 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

I don't do Comstar premades. I run with a Corps, and adding new people from Comstar is hardly any better than letting the matchmaker pick a random for us

Wow - you must be epic at this game. Can I bask in your amazing skills at a computer game?

[Vlad Ward]

Greyfyl, on 25 January 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Are you drunk now? Is it as rude as going into games with a huge advantage and roflstomping pugs instead of playing even 8mans?

And you might want to check your math.

What advantage? The only advantage I have is that I know at least 3 of the other pilots on my team are good at the game. The voice comms don't really give you an advantage if you aren't using them for calling targets.

Math is for sissies. There are too many assumptions to go into for me to care about spelling it out. More of that "How many premades are there in the PUG queue?" crap that everyone is sick of hearing. With a very low volume of premade groups, your odds of getting into a group with one are 1:2. But, with a very low volume of premade groups, the odds of you seeing any at all are so low that who cares?

[Vlad Ward]

This thread is quickly devolving into a total sh*thole, like every other thread on this topic.

The original point was that premade groups who are playing in the 4-man queue aren't going to be totally screwed over by ELO because they generally don't take advantage of their voice comms anyways.

Otherwise, all I'm getting from this is that being good at the game is OP and needs to be nerfed. Good players should just not play unless they're in an 8-man because they ruin the game for everyone and everything and probably punched holes in the ozone layer, too.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 25 January 2013 - 04:42 PM.