25 replies to this topic

[GODzillaGSPB]

I think I asked this earlier, last year, but was wondering if things have changed since then.

At first it seems unlikely that CASE does anything benefitial to a mech using an XL-engine. As far as I know, when the left or right torso is hit and ammunition explodes, it deals the damage apropriate to their damalge potential as a weapon. If 1t of LRM ammo explodes it should deal 180x1.8 points of damage. Much much more than enough to blow that torso section and the XL-engine as a whole.

But there are two things I wonder:


1.) What about other ammunition? 1t of MG ammunition deals 1000x0.4, which equals 40 damage. Can the internals survive this and can CASE make it so that it does not spread to the CT?

2.) The Grand Dragon...according to sarna.net it upgrades the Dragon with an XL-engine and - among other things - CASE protection for the ammo. But why? If it does anything to provide more protection against ammo-explosions, does MWO follow this principle or not?


I guess a developer answer is too much to expect (no offense ^^), so I was hoping for a few posts of people who are running XL-engines and can tell us their experience. Thanks in advance.

[Remarius]

Problem is the TRO's from which Sarna gets its information often specifically comment on design flaws like having useless case so some of it is deliberate. I always presumed it was so players could automatically design better balanced TT mechs when playing campaigns or series of battles. The number of times I dropped an AC5 for a large laser as an easily allowed upgrade from salvage.....

[Joseph Mallan]

CASE confines the damage from an Ammo explosion to the torso it protects and vents the excess dames out the back panels. that mean EVERYTHING in the CASEd torso is destroyed but the damage does not continue further. As I understand the device.

[Apoc1138]

for table top, (or even in MWO when they had RnR)... CASE prevents damage to other locations, so if you have to pay for repairs, it reduces your repair costs

that's it though, it doesn't stop your mech from dropping to floor in a useless heap

[AlexEss]

Also remember that CASE systems have some RP value to them too. the fluff effect is that you have a higher chance to come out with the pilot alive as normally the exploding force is spherical and would quickly blow flames and superheated gas in to the cockpit roasting the pilot following the path of least resistance, with a case all that force is given a easy escape out away from the cockpit. So even on a XL it would be a good thing to have as it gave the pilot the chance to punch out without third degree burns even if the mech it self was lost.

But game wise it is completely useless.to save the mech from being disable. But as mentioned it is good for stopping the domino effect.

Edited by AlexEss, 25 January 2013 - 05:08 AM.

[Alex Warden]

case will have no real use in MWO´s current state... yes, it still prevents other parts from taking damage, but the engine, and with it the mech, will be out of game anyway...

the only use it might have had earlier was, that it might have prevented the engine to take more damage, thus - maybe - reducing the repaircosts to 30 instead of 100%...

but since R&R are out for now, case is just 0.5 t of spaceholder in a sidetorso with an XL

[Mike McSullivan]

GODzillaGSPB, on 25 January 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:

As Apoc and AlexEss said, Case was just good for cost-reducing and/or RP-Style.

1.) What about other ammunition? 1t of MG ammunition deals 1000x0.4, which equals 40 damage. Can the internals survive this and can CASE make it so that it does not spread to the CT?

That´s 400 Dmg and that should be enough to blow even an Atlas to the outer Peripherie . What im wondering about at that point (im using case in all Ammo equipping mechs, so i dont really know) : Does MWO really transfer the damage correctly? like, does 1t of exploding MG-Ammo in the arm or leg really core an Atlas (with standard engine) without CASE (as Dmg-stopper in the sidetorsi)? If Yes, Case would still make sense in a RnR-free environment.

Edited by Mike McSullivan, 25 January 2013 - 05:26 AM.

[Hotthedd]

If you are running an XL and taking crits in a side torso, you already have one foot in the grave.

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

Actually I belive that a ton of MG ammo contains 2000 rounds, not 1000. And each round does 0.04 damage, so overall damage from MG ammo explosion would be 80.
On the subject: CASE is a waste of crit space and tonnage if you're running XL.

[Roughneck45]

As far as i understand it, CASE just confines the explosion to the single section and prevents damage from transferring to the CT.

But if you have an XL engine that explosion will still kill you.

So, if im understanding how it works, you should never take a CASE with an XL engine because it will have no benefit.

[IceCase88]

I thought CASE was supposed to protect the other critical spaces in the area it was located. Meaning, if you had an ammo explosion in your RT the case would direct the explosion from the ammo out and away from the rest of the critical spaces thus protecting the XL engine and other crits.

[Throat Punch]

C.A.S.E. (Cellular Ammunition Storage Equipment) redirects explosions from ammunition out the back of the Mech preventing internal damage from spreading, It has no effect on stopping/protecting an XL engine from being damaged/critted and disabling the mech.

Edited by Morsdraco, 25 January 2013 - 06:11 AM.

[Throat Punch]

IceCase88, on 25 January 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

I thought CASE was supposed to protect the other critical spaces in the area it was located. Meaning, if you had an ammo explosion in your RT the case would direct the explosion from the ammo out and away from the rest of the critical spaces thus protecting the XL engine and other crits.

Correct, but the likelyhood that if you take enough damage to set off the CASE but didn't receive any damage to the XL engine as well is pretty small in this game. In TT where you roll for location and have to take 3 engine crits to disable a mech is a lot different then how real time damage is resolved in MW:O.

[Galland]

There's some fluff in the TRO 3050 Upgrade saying that the Stalker-5M's lack of CASE caused a whole bunch of them to vaporize due to ammo explosions. In MWO the 'Mech's pilot is never in any danger of dying Steel Battalion-style if you don't eject properly, or if the cockpit is taken out. So if you were running with a Standard engine, CASE could mean that rather than your 'Mech blowing up from an ammo explosion you would soldier on with a side torso missing. Those people who have XL Engines won't really see any benefit.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Alex Warden, on 25 January 2013 - 05:21 AM, said:

case will have no real use in MWO´s current state... yes, it still prevents other parts from taking damage, but the engine, and with it the mech, will be out of game anyway...

the only use it might have had earlier was, that it might have prevented the engine to take more damage, thus - maybe - reducing the repaircosts to 30 instead of 100%...

but since R&R are out for now, case is just 0.5 t of spaceholder in a sidetorso with an XL

That sums it up quite nicely, thanks.

Mike McSullivan, on 25 January 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

That´s 400 Dmg

Yeah, but that's 400 damage because it was a typo. It should be 1000x0.04 not 0.4. In my head I calculated correctly though. ^^


@Everyone who just gave the correct definition of CASE: I know, I know! But thanks anyway. ^^

[Buzzkillin]

Supposedly if you had a Case with a XL during the RnR time, you paid less in repairs because you prevented ammo explosions and more damage to your mech. I read it on the forums but you can't test that anymore.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 January 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

CASE confines the damage from an Ammo explosion to the torso it protects and vents the excess dames out the back panels. that mean EVERYTHING in the CASEd torso is destroyed but the damage does not continue further. As I understand the device.

True but an Inner Sphere XL engine takes 3 extra crits on the side torso. An engine that takes 3 crits is destroyed. So if your side torsos take crit to ammo bin and you have CASE, it does jackshit, you still die. Now on a Clan mech with clan XL engines they only have 2 crits spill over to the side torsos so CASE in this case (pun intended), is useful because with 2 crits on an engine you still live. Also clan CASE can be placed on the arm.

Edited by Natasha Kerensky, 25 January 2013 - 11:48 AM.

[Natasha Kerensky]

IceCase88, on 25 January 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

I thought CASE was supposed to protect the other critical spaces in the area it was located. Meaning, if you had an ammo explosion in your RT the case would direct the explosion from the ammo out and away from the rest of the critical spaces thus protecting the XL engine and other crits.

Nope, CASE only protects the damage transfer from one torso to another so in the Inner Sphere, their CASE protects damage from side torso from going to the center in the case of ammo explosion or gun explosion. Clan CASE can protect arm explosions or leg explosions from going to the side torso.

[Lootee]

I think the benefit in TT was that an IS mech that died from losing the XL engine in a side torso could still be salvaged and repaired. But if the center torso was destroyed the mech is basically a pile of limbs and a head. It can't be rebuilt, easier to just get a whole new mech when the middle is gone.

So CASE prevents an ammo explosion in the side torso from completely destroying the center torso, center torso engine parts, gyro and any other equipment. Leaving it salvageable to be repaired for later use.

I don't think very many MWO players understand how salvage works in BattleTech. I see alot of ppl say 'that Atlas is afk let's blow it up for salvage!' And then they proceed to blow up both arms, both side torsos , a leg and then the center torso destroying all the weapons and the expensive engine in the process. Destroyed parts aren't salvage doofuses.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 25 January 2013 - 12:00 PM.

[Buzzkillin]

PanchoTortilla, on 25 January 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

I think the benefit in TT was that an IS mech that died from losing the XL engine in a side torso could still be salvaged and repaired. But if the center torso was destroyed the mech is basically a pile of limbs and a head. It can't be rebuilt, easier to just get a whole new mech when the middle is gone.

So CASE prevents an ammo explosion in the side torso from completely destroying the center torso, center torso engine parts, gyro and any other equipment. Leaving it salvageable to be repaired for later use.

I don't think very many MWO players understand how salvage works in BattleTech. I see alot of ppl say 'that Atlas is afk let's blow it up for salvage!' And then they proceed to blow up both arms, both side torsos , a leg and then the center torso destroying all the weapons and the expensive engine in the process. Destroyed parts aren't salvage doofuses.

I tell that to everyone, just shoot the legs, leaving everything else salvageable.