167 replies to this topic

[Kaspirikay]

I have a DDC and really, if they'd put ECM on the stalker as well, I'd be running the stalker. Those things seem to last way longer than my atlas.

[GhostFacedNinja]

It's all about paper, scissors, stone as per usual. Build being incredibly important. A quad AC5 phract, or triple UAC5 muromets, or various SRM combos are one trick ponies. Run up to things, core them, that's it. Atlas's are far more versatile than that, and should be capable of laying the smack down in many situations.

When it comes to Atlas vs Stalker, yes the stalker can carry WAY more weapons and has vastly superior alpha. However, the torso twist on stalkers SUCKS. And the arms to not rotate further either. So in my opinion, stalkers make the better fire support assault mechs, but atlas' are better brawlers/all rounders.
I would agree that, I would probably favour the Stalker if it wasn't for ECM. But with that the D-DC rocks all day long.

[xRaeder]

Livewyr, on 26 January 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

I pilot everything, and the Atlas is by far the strongest mech for taking damage, and dishing it out. (Except for perhaps the splatcat.. which can get neutered very easily.)

Trick to atlas:
When on weapon cool down, turn torso to present most armor to enemy, upon recycle, turn, deliver heavy hit, turn torso repeat.

Atlas D-DC
3 SRM6 + Art
1 AC20
2 Medium Lasers

several DHS
Max Armor
Crush everything.

You haven't faced the 6xPPC or 4xSRM6/4x ML Stalkers then. They can two shot an Atlas, you can't two shot a Stalker because the torso hitboxes are extremely difficult to pinpoint.

GhostFacedNinja, on 26 January 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

It's all about paper, scissors, stone as per usual. Build being incredibly important. A quad AC5 phract, or triple UAC5 muromets, or various SRM combos are one trick ponies. Run up to things, core them, that's it. Atlas's are far more versatile than that, and should be capable of laying the smack down in many situations.

When it comes to Atlas vs Stalker, yes the stalker can carry WAY more weapons and has vastly superior alpha. However, the torso twist on stalkers SUCKS. And the arms to not rotate further either. So in my opinion, stalkers make the better fire support assault mechs, but atlas' are better brawlers/all rounders.
I would agree that, I would probably favour the Stalker if it wasn't for ECM. But with that the D-DC rocks all day long.

In a two Assault Mech fight torso twist doesn't matter. Stalker wins, all things (pilot skill/situation) being equal, every time.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

King Arthur IV, on 26 January 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

if atlas is weak, where is the awesome then?

unassuming?

[GhostFacedNinja]

xRaeder, on 26 January 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

In a two Assault Mech fight torso twist doesn't matter. Stalker wins, all things (pilot skill/situation) being equal, every time.

One situation amongst many. And again it's about build. A 6xPPC Stalker? Stand inside 90m. A 4xSRM6+4xML? Stand over 300m. LRM stalker? Stand inside 180m, and use cover. A laserboat stalker? Alpha it to death with ballistics/SRMs or whatever. You get my point.

And the point I was really trying to make with torso twist/arm movement is that a Stalker has a hard time against fast medium mechs, never mind lights. An Atlas will shred mediums all day and has enough twist/arm movement to make lights go away. Stalkers have no such luxury, they NEED team support to be properly effective. Or they need to be lucky and pointed the right direction.
Ok, if you group all the time, not a problem. But if you PUG.. You can never rely on having decent team mates.
Although as I said before the ECM gives the Atlas a massive boost in viability. A D-DC is usually providing ECM cover in the right place, unlike light mechs which tend to running around all over the place.

I have both Atlas's and Stalkers. I like assaults. I like them both, as they are both powerful, but they are different. I've smashed enough Stalkers in my Atlas, and visa versa. You cannot say one is vastly better than the other, or that one will always beat the other, even if all other things are the same. For me, yes the Stalker hits harder, but I feel way more vulnerable in it.

Edited by GhostFacedNinja, 26 January 2013 - 07:31 PM.

[Profiteer]

If the Atlas didn't have ECM I personally wouldn't touch it.

It's a huge, slow target and always draws fire from everywhere.

The stalker beats it hands down in almost every way; I have no problems destroying lights & mediums with 5x ML, 5x streaks.

Edited by Profiteer, 26 January 2013 - 07:31 PM.

[GhostFacedNinja]

And a Stalker is slightly less than huge, slow, draws fire from everywhere and turns like a boat. Yes anything in front is in a world of hurt, but it can get alpha'd to death from behind before it can even see what is shooting at it.
I must point out, I'm not saying it's a bad mech, I love mine. But I also love my Atlas. It is in no way underpowered, and is simply a different play than the Stalker.
Ok, maybe I should rephrase. A stalker can kill lights and mediums. But an Atlas is better at it. And is generally better in a brawl.

Hmmm that build sounds very odd to me. Assuming you've vastly increased the engine to make up the tonnage. And reduced the possible DPS by a ton too. Strikes me like it's been turned into a heavy instead of an assault, so no wonder it does ok on mediums/lights. Although the DPS would be even worse when ECM locked, and would probably lose heads up fights against most other assaults, especially other stalkers...

Edited by GhostFacedNinja, 26 January 2013 - 07:55 PM.

[Varaxus]

Red squirrel, on 26 January 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

Mhh .. have you ever faced a Cataphract 4X with 4xAC5 ?
When I use this mech and meet an Atlas I tend to stand still for a few seconds core the Atlas ... then walk away.
But maybe there are too many people using the Atlas as an LRM boat and the previously suggested 3ASRM6 variant is a stronger brawler....but still CTF-4X is a real thread to an Atlas. ANd I think it should take two of them to bring down an Atlas.

^^^ This and in my Ilya as well.

[miscreant]

I crumble to the ground like a snowman in summer when enemy mechs simply look at me.

Yes, the Atlas is too weak for what it is - considering how hard it is to take down the Stalker.

[StandingCow]

It depends on how you are playing your atlas. You can't get caught out alone, and you need to soak up damage for your team. My DDC (even before ECM) will take out any other mech toe to toe due to it's firepower.

[Khobai]

Quote

Yes, the Atlas is too weak for what it is - considering how hard it is to take down the Stalker.

Yep. Not only does the Stalker 5M have a small profile for its tonnage but it's got 10 freaking weapon hardpoints. I can fill all 10 hardpoints with weapons, put in a faster engine than an atlas, and still have more DHS than an Atlas. Ballistic hardpoints are crap compared to Missile and Energy hardpoints. Mainly because Ballistic weapons take up so many crit slots that could otherwise be DHS. Boating SRM6s and MedLas is just way more efficient.

The D-DC is still very good, but only because of ECM. I do think the Stalker 5M is way better than all the other Atlases though. And certainly the 5M is better than all the Awesomes except for maybe a fast 9M just because the 9M is the only fast assault and nothing else really compares to it.

Edited by Khobai, 27 January 2013 - 12:35 AM.

[M0oP0o]

Its not weak, just a bit schizophrenic and a priority target.

The fact that you HAVE to use weapons from every category plus have the most intimidating profile means piloting one is not simple. You can't be a boat, you have to try to make full use of all your weapons while avoiding to much attention.

I have to say the stalker is a much better firing platform due to the position and make up of hard points, but the atlas can be devastating if you can master all the different weapons (and/or have a mouse with 6 buttons).

[Uzi Foo]

I have a saying, "There is nothing worse than a bad atlas pilot."

[Red squirrel]

GhostFacedNinja, on 26 January 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

It's all about paper, scissors, stone as per usual. Build being incredibly important. A quad AC5 phract, or triple UAC5 muromets, or various SRM combos are one trick ponies.

Your argument fits the CAT A1 but not a AC5 boat.

I would not compare a 4x AC5 build to the 6xSRM6 Splatterpult.
The AC5 is an effective weapon up to 1080m (50% damage).

[Zolaz]

Red squirrel, on 26 January 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

Your opinion?

The Atlas is fine, you just dont know how to play. Get the mech up into Elite and see if you feel the same way. Some mechs are just a learning experience.

[Adrienne Vorton]

the atlas is still the assault that i fear the most (if any^^)

while it´s true that the STK can blow out a very hard punch, it can barely move and maneuver...unless you go for a huge engine and lose a lot of your firepower

STK= good addition to any team,pure and raw firepower

Atlas = King of the Battlefield with a wide range of abilities

my 0.02€

Edited by Adrienne Vorton, 27 January 2013 - 02:56 AM.

[Jalak Bali]

Stalker has highest alpha potential but it's slow and can get chewed up by circling faster mechs. Atlas is more versatile. The reason Atlas appears to be weaker is because of disproportionate number of terrible builds. Bad pilots tend to pick the Atlas because it has the most armor then filled it with PPCs and LRMs thinking they will have the longest lifespan by having full armor and staying out of the brawl, and then dying terribly to a Hunchback or Cataphract or Catapult.

[Red squirrel]

Zolaz, on 27 January 2013 - 02:47 AM, said:

The Atlas is fine, you just dont know how to play. Get the mech up into Elite and see if you feel the same way. Some mechs are just a learning experience.

Hi again,
havent you just trolled me in another thread?

I would kindly ask you to read the OP.
You will find out that I am not an Atlas pilot and my
experience comes from killing them too easily.

[Red squirrel]

Jalak Bali, on 27 January 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:

Stalker has highest alpha potential but it's slow and can get chewed up by circling faster mechs. Atlas is more versatile. The reason Atlas appears to be weaker is because of disproportionate number of terrible builds. Bad pilots tend to pick the Atlas because it has the most armor then filled it with PPCs and LRMs thinking they will have the longest lifespan by having full armor and staying out of the brawl, and then dying terribly to a Hunchback or Cataphract or Catapult.

I guess the affinity of new players to the biggest / baddest mech can be an explanation.

There are few worse things than a premade team of 2 D-DC ECM Atlas working together.
These dual D-DC ECM thing is one of the few occations that makes me shiver in MWO.

"Squirrel to Dropship Zeta - requesting extraction ASAP!"

[Wolfways]

IMO all the assaults are too weak. Unlike the faster classes you can almost always concentrate firepower on a single location.

I mostly pilot heavies btw.